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Post by hikingtiger on Aug 18, 2016 12:11:51 GMT -8
Driving through the neighborhoods is extremely difficult, both emotionally and logistically, but my part is easy compared to those ripping out walls and carpets and throwing their lives on the curb. That was my thought in Bridge City and Orange, TX, after Ike. I thought how much harder it must have been for some of the older folks to let strangers come in and help clean out. Sure, they needed the help and were very appreciative, but still.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Aug 18, 2016 12:22:59 GMT -8
gabby, those that live in the swamps know well about floods. Their houses are built on stilts for a reason. Not all of S. Louisiana is swamp, and this was no ordinary flood, at all. Your post pretty much of reeks of self-righteous (and somewhat ignorant) sanctimony in the face of a disaster. First time I've been called "ignorant" here by anyone other than some right wing type - or B2W. I would have preferred "rude", "crude" or "inappropriate" - all of which may have been apropos, given that I was quoting (and channeling to some extent) a standup comedian. But, nevermind. I know that people from Louisiana know more about floods and flooding than I ever will. I fully understand that this was a "500 year" or "1000 year" event that had little to do with the geographic location, though I suspect that there was a great deal to do with "global warming influence", and the warm Gulf supplying moist air - as I mentioned. If such a downpour had happened in Austin, Texas, at least some of the city would be underwater for a considerable time. The area closer to the river that runs through town is extremely susceptible to flooding - lots of creeks and waterways which all converge to flow into the Colorado. As it is, we got the tail of the storm in question, and about 7 to 8 inches of rain in the last week. Only the low-lying areas to the south of town, along the river, were really affected by flooding. "Inappropriate humor", I plea - but not completely uninformed. gabby said: "...but I still think they should simply shut New Orleans down" That thought went through my head during Katrina. However, it was pointed out to me the incredible value of the seaport there. That's something that can't just be closed down or moved. I agree that, as in many other conundra of like consequence, there is always a political or economic factor based on history. My point in my previous post was that, because humans depended on "commerce via the sea" so heavily at one point, many (if not most) of our large seaports were established at the mouths of rivers near the sea (or the confluence of rivers when inland) in order to facilitate that access to transportation. These areas, including New Orleans, are more at risk with changing climate and consequent changing water levels. New Orleans is particularly at risk because of the number of factors that are literally eroding its "geographic location" in more than one way. The problem is balancing the risk to economy and human life against the economic value of the location. Louisiana is, like southeast Texas - which, by the way, has the same sort of coastal problems with coastal marshes and lowlands which are doubly at risk because of human habitation and global warming - a major source of petroleum and refinery capacity for the entire nation. There's probably no easy way of changing that short of getting largely off of petroleum fuel. That's not going to happen anytime soon. For New Orleans and, in fact, most of Louisiana, of course - Louisiana being essentially the tail end of the gigantic alluvial plain of the largest drainage in North America, as well as one of the top 5 such drainages in the world - there is larger opportunity for flooding. Cities are built along the Mississippi and its tributaries. There is more water acreage in Louisiana than in most of the surrounding states, including the much larger Texas. All of which makes flooding a serious problem. Like I said, I suspect that the response will be to "build more walls" against the flooding rather than move away. Not that walls or anything else would have helped in this particular "freakish" downpour. What I read says, however, that we can probably expect more of such "freakish" weather events.
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BlueBear
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@GoBlueHiker
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Post by BlueBear on Aug 18, 2016 12:30:58 GMT -8
Gabby, would you have preferred the term "condescending"? "Obtuse," maybe? As has been pointed out, much of S. Louisiana is not swamp land, hence "ignorant." To clarify, I didn't call you ignorant personally, but this little quip surely reeked of ignorance. Well, people in Louisiana are living in the swamps. It floods in the swamps. After all, that's what a swamp is: a swamp is flooded land. All those descriptors fit that statement. I'm unsure why you felt such "humor" (as you now call it) was appropriate. "You never should have lived there! Ha ha?" (Humor?) Pretty much any city in the USA would flood with 20-30" of rain in 48-72 hours. Heck, we got 12-17" of rain here in Boulder in 2013 and it did a helluva lot of damage, including temporary evacuations of several dozen families from of low-lying areas. Homes washed away, several people died. 20-30" would have seen evacuations on larger scales (my place included... all roads out of town were blocked for a time). But we didn't live in a part of the country so many people feel so comfortable stereotyping and widely deriding, which appears to be the difference. It didn't flood because it's Louisiana. It didn't flood because Baton Rouge doesn't know how to deal with floods (they do). It flooded because 20-30 inches of rain fell in a couple short days, breaking all previous records there. I don't think Topeka, KS or Buffalo, NY (and certainly not Boulder, CO) would've fared much better in a deluge of that magnitude.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Aug 18, 2016 13:40:05 GMT -8
Gabby, would you have preferred the term "condescending"? "Obtuse," maybe? As has been pointed out, much of S. Louisiana is not swamp land, hence "ignorant." To clarify, I didn't call you ignorant personally, but this little quip surely reeked of ignorance. I thought about the "backlash effect" before posting that, but it was something I thought about while reading the posts here. Despite the mitigation efforts on the Mississippi and other waterways, the population of Louisiana is largely situated in low-lying, imminently floodable areas - IOW, the potential for flooding is still great. Whenever I start thinking about Louisiana and, especially, New Orleans, I go back to thinking about other large port cities of the world that "live" on alluvial plains. Many of them do, because, as I said before, port cities are usually situated where sea transport and river transport converge. I particularly find Tokyo's situation alarming. Parked on what is essentially a marshy alluvial plain (the Kanto alluvial plain) laid down as largely unconsolidated sediment, the city also sits atop the intersection of three (3!) major tectonic plates, as well as being in a major monsoon zone. During the earthquake of 2011 (the one that triggered the catastrophic tsunami, some 250 miles away from Tokyo), news film showed water literally bubbling out of the soil in Tokyo. It's that unstable. At least one Japanese seismologist has predicted that Tokyo will have another "Kanto-level event" (1923's disaster) in the next 30 to 35 years. I doubt the Japanese will move Tokyo even if it's destroyed. (Once again, "political, cultural and economic factors" will dictate.) All those descriptors fit that statement. I'm unsure why you felt such "humor" (as you now call it) was appropriate. Clearly you didn't think it was. That's your call, of course. I expected some "backlash". You get to use any words you wish. It didn't flood because it's Louisiana. It flooded because 20-30 inches of rain fell in a couple short days, breaking all previous records there. I said as much myself in my last post.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 18, 2016 15:55:49 GMT -8
It didn't flood because it's Louisiana. It flooded because 20-30 inches of rain fell in a couple short days, breaking all previous records there. Yeah, 2 years ago Colorado had major floods due to high rainfall. Not too many swamps in CO, though they do have a few wet meadows.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 18, 2016 16:37:38 GMT -8
amazing how all that snow-writing happens in summer Huh?
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RumiDude
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Marmota olympus
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Post by RumiDude on Aug 18, 2016 17:12:17 GMT -8
Putting aside the joking or tongue-in-cheek comments, Gabby's point about large cities in jeopardy is valid. If it was just NOLA, then we might be able to handle that. But we are not Holland with a limited shoreline to build dikes around to keep out the sea. Our coastal areas are heavily populated and after Sandy, many REBUILT in the same place. The situation in NYC is only going to get worse, as it will everywhere else.
But, all this discussion is probably better done in a different thread.
Rumi
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cajun
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GEAUX TIGERS!!
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Post by cajun on Aug 18, 2016 18:46:33 GMT -8
This is the map of the parishes declared as disasters. My parish is the little white spot along the western side of the Mississippi River in the middle of the picture; we were very lucky here. The "9 WAFB" is over New Orleans, also not a disaster area. I have a lot more thoughts, but after helping flood victims all day, again, for the 6th day in a row, I'll save my energy ... for now.
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cajun
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Post by cajun on Aug 18, 2016 19:03:40 GMT -8
here in sunny (and parched) southern Cal, we are battling terrific fires. I wish we could funnel our water to you. It rained another 4" in this area yesterday and another 3" today.
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cajun
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Post by cajun on Aug 18, 2016 19:08:11 GMT -8
I do have one more thought to share. My uncle, who is a retired seaman and experienced with this kind of thing, estimated that the water flowed into his neighborhood at approximately 20 knots.
Well two thoughts actually - here's the second: a friend had water on her street that cars could easily drive through. Three hours later, she was literally swimming out of her house. When she returned on Tuesday to see the damage to her house and cars, she discovered that snakes had taken refuge in one of the cars and several drawers in her house. (She just closed it all up, went back to where she was staying, and cried.)
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Aug 18, 2016 19:17:04 GMT -8
I do have one more thought to share. My uncle, who is a retired seaman and experienced with this kind of thing, estimated that the water flowed into his neighborhood at approximately 20 knots. That will surely leave a wake of destruction. I'll also pass on hosting snakes.
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zeke
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Peekaboo slot 2023
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Post by zeke on Aug 19, 2016 8:28:05 GMT -8
No car is sealed. Mice can get inside any car. If mice can, snakes can. Openings in the trunk, or engine compartment allow access.
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reuben
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Gonna need more Camels at the next refugio...
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Post by reuben on Aug 19, 2016 8:30:50 GMT -8
Brings a whole new idea to car camping, eh?
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Post by autumnmist on Aug 19, 2016 11:51:54 GMT -8
@ben2world , not sure where you live, but here in the cold winter areas, we're generally cautioned as winter approaches to check underneath the hood to ensure the squirrels or cats haven't snuggled up to a warm engine when we last returned home.
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cajun
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Post by cajun on Aug 20, 2016 19:48:23 GMT -8
Props to Zeke! He showed up around 4:30 this afternoon and immediately went to work. I can't tell you how much I appreciate his being here to help. Tomorrow he's off to help Bateaux, one of our own, as he recovers from this historic flood.
A person could work 24 hours each day, if he didn't have to sleep. The amount of work to be done is enormous.
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