|
Post by trinity on Nov 4, 2023 15:02:12 GMT -8
I had a new experience a few weeks ago while at a retreat center in the piney woods of east Texas--was bitten on the foot by a Copperhead. After all the time I've spent hiking through snake habitat, it was at a clergy conference that I finally got bitten.... I received timely and high-quality medical care including antivenom therapy, and aside from some very mild lingering soreness, I'm doing fine. Since snakebite is a risk for many of us, here are a few lessons learned: Elevation of the affected limb is key. I heard this over and over and over from my doctors and nurses. If you are ever bitten, elevate the affected limb, if possible, while seeking medical care as quickly as possible. Rural hospitals are often better trained and equipped to treat snakebite than urban ones. A friend was going to take me to Houston, which has some of the best hespitals in the nation, but the staff nurse encouraged us to go to one of the smaller rural hospitals instead. She also called ahead to be sure they had antivenom on hand. Not all hospitals do. This proved excellent advice, as the hospital in Bryan had considerable expertise in treating snakebite. One of the side-effects, for me, of being so comfortable in the outdoors is that I am also very comfortable, perhaps complacent, about walking outside in the dark. I was walking from my cabin to my car wearing Chacos on a warm night in prime Copperhead habitat, in a place where I've seen many of them before. With hindsite, I should have known better. I love being in the dark, but sometimes it is best to use a flashlight. An amazing resource is a Facebook group called National Snakebite Support. This is a heavily moderated group that allows snakebite victims or their families to communicate with physicians who specialize in snakebite treatment. My wife (who was at home several hundred miles away) was already a member of this group, and within a few minutes of posting, a physician was providing her with medical advice, which she relayed to me. Eventually my ER nurse, who was also a member of this group, went on, posted photos of my foot, and she, my wife, and the physician worked together to treat my snakebite. It was quite amazing. So, I still love snakes, but have a newfound respect for their ability to mess us up. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have had things work out so well. Y'all stay safe out there.
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 4, 2023 16:14:16 GMT -8
Youch!! So glad you're OK.
So I have a question...you knew right away what kind of snake bit you, yeah? What if one is totally snake ignorant (like me), and didn't know what kind of snake it was? How do people figure that out, and get the correct antivenom? Or is there some universal antivenom?
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 4, 2023 16:14:39 GMT -8
PS: we want photos
|
|
|
Post by trinity on Nov 4, 2023 16:35:51 GMT -8
you knew right away what kind of snake bit you, yeah? Yes, after it bit me, I was going back into the cabin to see what the hell had stung me (figured maybe a scorpion), and saw it on the porch. Smallish, luckily. Or is there some universal antivenom? Yes. This was news to me as well. Any snakebite in the US by any pit viper (so any venomous snake but Coral Snakes) is treated with the same antivenom. This is the only one I've got, playing my friends uke in the ER. You can see the swollen foot, and if you look closely, the fang holes.
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 4, 2023 17:15:14 GMT -8
Yes. This was news to me as well. Any snakebite in the US by any pit viper (so any venomous snake but Coral Snakes) is treated with the same antivenom. Huh! That's pretty cool. So...I have more dumb questions...what if someone who is totally snake ignorant gets bitten by a non-venomous snake? How does said ignorant person prevent embarrassing themselves by freaking out like a total sissy? Are venomous snake bites instantly obviously venomous? Did you start feeling bad immediately? Also...I'm shopping for some new hiking boots for snake country. What do you think of these:
|
|
|
Post by trinity on Nov 4, 2023 17:35:46 GMT -8
Did you start feeling bad immediately? It stung like a MF. I had no idea a venomous snakebite hurt so bad. I've been bitten many times by non-venomous snakes. Believe me, you'll know the difference. What do you think of these: They don't look very ultralight. Are they titanium?
|
|
balzaccom
Trail Wise!
Waiting for spring...
Posts: 4,551
|
Post by balzaccom on Nov 4, 2023 18:04:33 GMT -8
Wow. Good to know that you got such timely and effective care. Hope you are up and about soon!
I'm surprised at the elevation advice. Mayo Clinic makes no mention of that. Both Johns Hopkins and the CDC say to keep the bite below your heart.
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 4, 2023 19:26:24 GMT -8
I'm surprised at the elevation advice. Mayo Clinic makes no mention of that. Both Johns Hopkins and the CDC say to keep the bite below your heart. And the NIH says... it dependsFirst Aid and Pre-Hospital Management of Venomous SnakebitesFirst aid measures should be directed at reducing systemic toxicity by limiting lymphatic flow. Splints, rest, and avoidance of movement should reduce movement of the involved extremity.
Positioning of the extremity below or at the level of the heart should be individualized—for snakebites with severe and potentially fatal systemic toxicity, systemic toxicity might be delayed by positioning the extremity below the heart, while for snakebites with severe local tissue damage and less systemic toxicity, positioning the extremity below the heart could increase local toxicity.
Well, I'm confused.
|
|
Travis
Trail Wise!
WYOMING NATIVE
Posts: 2,630
|
Post by Travis on Nov 4, 2023 19:38:50 GMT -8
Very glad you're okay and got good care right away. It makes a person think twice about how to proceed if out on the trail and bitten a long ways from good care. The photo is great, and it was kind of like reading the fine print, but I had to chuckle at the name plate on the counter above you. It says, "Chaos Coordinator." After all the time I've spent hiking through snake habitat, it was at a clergy conference that I finally got bitten....
I hope your associates didn't find any biblical symbolism in that incident. In the conservative baptist church camps I attended as a youngster, such an occasion could have been the takeoff point for an entire sermon. :D
|
|
|
Post by trinity on Nov 5, 2023 4:00:43 GMT -8
Interesting about the CDC, Mayo, and NIH. I didn't realize there was still disagreement about elevating. I am going to look into this further. I believe this is the protocol now being followed by many snakebite experts: Unified Treatment Algorithm. Everyone involved in my treatment made a big deal about keeping my foot elevated. I had to chuckle at the name plate on the counter above you. It says, "Chaos Coordinator." It would have been unseemly for a priest, but I was sorely tempted to steal that sign. Describes my job so well.... I hope your associates didn't find any biblical symbolism in that incident. I definitely took some gentle ribbing. Most accused me of deliberately allowing myself to be bitten in order to get out of the conference. My colleagues know me well.
|
|
reuben
Trail Wise!
Gonna need more Camels at the next refugio...
Posts: 11,213
|
Post by reuben on Nov 5, 2023 4:33:29 GMT -8
Wow, I'm glad you're OK. Like SBM I'm pretty clueless regarding snakes. I've seen a few cross a path ahead of me, generally black snakes, but I'm never really on the lookout for them, or even able to identify them.
If you had been playing the uke on your evening jaunt the snake probably would have slithered away before you got there. A banjo would also work, but it's not UL like the uke.
|
|
ErnieW
Trail Wise!
I want to backpack
Posts: 10,019
|
Post by ErnieW on Nov 5, 2023 5:22:42 GMT -8
I hope you get better quickly. I'm guessing it is like the antivenom in regards to the elevation based on the quote Sleeping Bag Man! posted. Every bite except a coral snake gets elevated. Coral snakes keep the bite at or below the heart. Coral snakes have a neurotoxin venom which is systemic. Other venomous snakes in the US are hemolytic. They damage the blood and tissue locally (see the swollen foot pic).
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 5, 2023 7:00:03 GMT -8
A banjo would also work, but it's not UL like the uke. WebMD says that most snakes will bite you to get you stop playing a banjo. Plus you have the acute side effect of having to listen to a banjo. Trinity’s church group should’ve summoned Saint Patrick. At the very least, they should have their next conference in Ireland.
|
|
|
Post by georgeofthej on Nov 5, 2023 7:16:00 GMT -8
Thank you for sharing your story, Trinity. I'm glad you came through okay.
I am confused about how to handle a snakebite in the backcountry. I was just talking to my sister-in-law yesterday about this. She had taken a first aid class a few years ago and was taught to get a snake bite victim out of the backcountry and to medical care right away, even if it meant that victim walked. But the NIH advice, which SBM posted, is to rest and avoid movement. Kind of a dilemma.
This is a good thread because we should all know what to do in case of a snakebite.
I found it interesting that there is a universal antivenom; I didn't know that before.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,709
|
Post by rebeccad on Nov 5, 2023 7:47:51 GMT -8
This is an educational thread. As a Westerner, the only snake I have to worry abut is the rattler, which usually announces itself (I consider that an excellent courtesy and more snakes should follow their example).
Like others, I was contemplating the appropriate response when in the back country. Having a device like the InReach that allows two-way communication could be very helpful—I’m guessing that if possible they’d want to send a chopper, but in some cases relocating yourself might be the best or only option.
If I do any hiking in the Southeast, I’ll be looking into hiking boots like the ones SBM pictured.
|
|