BigLoad
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Pancakes!
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Post by BigLoad on Nov 5, 2023 10:02:55 GMT -8
Yikes! From what I've read previously, Copperheads bite more readily than rattlers. They're fairly common around here, but I've only seen a handful in the wild, mostly in flattened condition. I hope you heal quickly with no lasting effects.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Nov 5, 2023 12:07:33 GMT -8
I have heard that the venom in juvenile snakes can be more potent than adults. Not sure if this is true or not. Glad you're OK.
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Post by downriver on Nov 5, 2023 13:23:14 GMT -8
So glad you’re okay, Trinity…! Like Texas, Missouri has pit vipers, too. Lots of them (copperheads, cottonmouths and timber rattlers). Ran into them frequently hiking or paddling. Of the three, copperheads have the least-potent venom. I’m hoping you make a quick recovery with no lingering problems. Take care, pal…!
Regards,
DR
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Nov 5, 2023 18:11:32 GMT -8
trinity did you actually step on the snake or just close?
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Post by trinity on Nov 6, 2023 6:41:26 GMT -8
ErnieW , not sure, I was walking in the dark and didn't know I had been bitten until I felt a sharp stinging pain in my foot. Turned to go back into the cabin, spotted movement, and was able to get a light on the snake and see it coiled on the ground. I assumed I had stepped right next to it, but may very well have stepped on it. Since I was wearing Chacos, I didn't feel anything through the sole.
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Nov 6, 2023 18:53:40 GMT -8
I'm surprised at the elevation advice. Mayo Clinic makes no mention of that. Both Johns Hopkins and the CDC say to keep the bite below your heart. And the NIH says... it dependsFirst Aid and Pre-Hospital Management of Venomous SnakebitesFirst aid measures should be directed at reducing systemic toxicity —for snakebites with severe and potentially fatal systemic toxicity, systemic toxicity might be delayed by positioning the extremity below the heart, while for snakebites with severe local tissue damage and less systemic toxicity, positioning the extremity below the heart could increase local toxicity.
Well, I'm confused. It will depend on the species of venomous snake assuming it isn’t a “dry bite”. I camped with a ER doctor from Las Vegas NV one night who said his snakebite victims pretty much followed the national trend .. 95% male with the bite on their hand. He said a healthy adult has an excellent chance of surviving a rattlesnake bite but the one he would take extra precautions with is the Green Mojave of the southwestern US. If he were bit by one of those, he’d use a tourniquet on himself due to the mix of venoms. With a bunch of these rattlers (Green Mojave, Western Diamondback, Southern Pacific), the protocol in Southern California is trying to evacuate the patient in 30 minutes to start anti-venom to minimize tissue damage at the site of the bite. Knew a hiker who was bit by a baby with full envenomation. She said she started feeling woozy at the 15 minute mark so it’s likely a bitee will be lying down anyways. (she had a PLB which she activated to “call da chopper”) Ran into one a foggy Kansas morning picking up some junk. It was hidden underneath where it was dry .. sneaky sucker.
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Post by trinity on Nov 7, 2023 15:21:11 GMT -8
I've been thinking more and more about some of the issues y'all are raising with regards to treatment in the back country, where a friend can't just drive you to the nearest hospital. Some members of National Snakebite Support have recommended listening to this episode of Backpacker Radio, a podcast many of you may already be familiar with. I've listened for years, and usually find it entertaining, though the episodes tend to be long, involve lots of profanities, and I find one of the hosts rather annoying. Anyways, I've listened to part of this episode, an interview with two snakebite experts, both with the Asclepias Foundation. It is very informative, and fun to listen to, so I highly recommend it.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on Nov 12, 2023 14:16:13 GMT -8
Love the very cool rockstar photo!
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Post by trinity on Nov 16, 2023 13:54:31 GMT -8
Just received the insurance claim information for the snakebite treatment. I'll have some significant out of pocket expenses, but most of it was covered, which is a good thing; the antivenom alone was billed at $97,686.86. Yikes. If you live in snake country, be sure you have good insurance.
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Travis
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Post by Travis on Nov 16, 2023 15:32:58 GMT -8
the antivenom alone was billed at $97,686.86. That is outrageous. I can't imagine how it would cost that much. I now have a better idea of how to respond to a snake bite in the wilderness. And it does not involve seeking medical attention.
ETA: I just read several articles on why the price is so high. The explanation probably belongs in TPA, but the short answer is that the same antivenom (antivenin), made by the same manufacturer, in Mexico would cost less than 2% of the cost in the United States.
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Post by trinity on Nov 16, 2023 17:32:55 GMT -8
I now have a better idea of how to respond to a snake bite in the wilderness. And it does not involve seeking medical attention. Well, hopefully you will never have to make that decision. But the hospitals seem to be hesitant to administer antivenom, in part because of the cost. In my case, one of my nurses really advocated for it, and because I have pretty good insurance, I agreed. But the choice was entirely up to me. So to me the lesson is that we should educate ourselves as best as possible, and then be prepared to advocate for ourselves, if necessary. But I was glad to be in a hospital where they could monitor me and respond quickly if things started to go south.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Nov 16, 2023 19:02:05 GMT -8
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Travis
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Post by Travis on Nov 16, 2023 21:06:31 GMT -8
From an NPR article they said the average price is $3198 per vial. ...but merely $200 in Mexico.
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Post by oldbill on Nov 17, 2023 6:04:10 GMT -8
If you live in snake country, be sure you have good insurance. Glad you survived the experience and the resulting financial shock as well! Not sure what my Medicare Advantage would cover. If bitten in the backcountry it would seem impossible to elevate a foot and still evacuate (or is it rest and wait?) Did an overnight last weekend at one of the most snake-infested lakes in NY state. Luckily it was cold enough that the rattlers were denned (I hope). But I did worry about leaving the tent for a nightly bathroom break. Another reason I prefer backpacking in cooler weather at high elevations.
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Post by georgeofthej on Nov 17, 2023 14:14:55 GMT -8
Some members of National Snakebite Support have recommended listening to this episode of Backpacker Radio, Good info, trinity. I went to the table of contents and found "if you get bit while hiking, what should you do" at 32 minutes in. The podcast's two doctors disagreed as to whether it was better to hike out or to call 911(or SOS InReach) and wait, if you were bitten 2 miles from the trailhead. I guess you take your pick. It might depend on where you are and how long you think it will take help to arrive if you call for it.
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