Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 9:27:54 GMT -8
Does a bear defecate in the woods and does he use a trowel?
Frankly, I think this is more of a necessity in the more used or populated areas as in the back country I frequently visit, I seldom pass another person....much less see signs of a cat hole or human waste. Then again, I stay out of the more "popular" areas for the most part.
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toejam
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Post by toejam on Aug 15, 2018 10:29:47 GMT -8
I sometimes dig the hole afterwards.
Once I was so proud of my product I left it on the surface to make the bears jealous.
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rangewalker
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Post by rangewalker on Aug 15, 2018 11:48:04 GMT -8
Does a bear defecate in the woods and does he use a trowel? Situational ethics? One premise of the cathole is to keep down the visual disturbance. Spreading potential disease aside, it is simply civil behavior to follow a few norms no matter where on earth we are, behind the bar or in wilderness. We kill bears for defecating on decks and scaring people.
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davesenesac
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Post by davesenesac on Aug 15, 2018 12:42:02 GMT -8
Did that on Canyonlands Elephant Canyon backpack once.
But otherwise Potty Kit? Never considered such before but then I don't backpack into popular areas or camp along trails. In other words I've viewed wag bag and hole depth issues as what the vast majority of visitors that hike and camp along popular trails and destinations need to do. Like people will hike 8 miles on trails through what is "wilderness" while retaining some primal fear or avoidance behaviors to at any point venturing off more than short distances. Generally in the Sierra Nevada when one is a couple hundred yards and more away from trails, use routes, and lake edges, there are vast areas rarely with any signs of human passage much less human potty doings. It is true policy makers predictably declare everyone everywhere need to subscribe to overly simple one size fits all rules, that is because if they don't, some lowest common denominator intelligence types at the end of the Bell Curve who can barely read one line comments unless such is a comic book, are sure to ignore policy.
On the trip we returned from last week I am today on my puter html coding for, the first night day we were indeed along a popular use route everyone had to pass through in order to reach the promised lands beyond. So yeah I used the tigger method to dig a hole. Lots of places with deep soft soils for a rock or stick. We chose a well used camp spot below shading whitebark pines. Other two set up tents in the primary 2 spots while I started to set up 20 feet away on a small flat spot behind the pines that offered pm shade. Well after dumping gear out of my pack and tossing down the ground Tyvek sheet. Ughhhh yuk what is that foul smell? Yeah some recent inconsiderate bozos using the site apparently were so lazy and afraid to venture away (rumours of saber toothed chipmunks) that they used this perfectly good tent spot to defecate at! It is things like that which led decades ago as a still young man to my total abandonment of normal well used camp siting habits.
I do take numbers of those Kleenix tissue packets that are most used for clearing sinuses in my prominent nose and my day pack has a small bottle of ethyl alcohol based hand cleaner that I use for cleaning grease like DEET or fish cleaning residue off my hands or pine sap off clothing. Of course I as a Mr Clean advocate also jump into creeks and lakes most every day.
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Post by hikerjer on Aug 15, 2018 18:49:13 GMT -8
Once I was so proud of my product I left it on the surface to make the bears jealous That was you? Thanks a lot.
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Post by k9education on Aug 15, 2018 19:01:07 GMT -8
I admit that I do not carry a trowel and many times my cat holes are less than ideal because of the terrain, but I ALWAYS carry out or burn the TP because I find half buried TP way too often! Like rebeccad, I use tissue packets instead of TP too. Some high use areas in the Sierra require WAG bags (carry it all out) so that's my kit when required and wished that this method would become more acceptable and mainstream instead of the traditional cat hole.
I'm happy when people dig a hole period. We've come across plenty of human stool samples complete with used TP about 6" off the AT. It certainly makes me think twice about night hiking. That is one beast I don't wish to encounter in the dark. :x
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Aug 15, 2018 19:56:24 GMT -8
Besides natural materials, I’ll add tp, Dr B’s soap (unscented) and hand sanitizer, though in forests or other soft dirt, I’ll add a trowel. Been thinking of adding a dedicated backcountry bidet (instructions online), though I’ll never go completely tp-less.
Out West more places require at least tp get packed out, and with miniaturized cameras becoming ever prevalent, that’s one wanted poster you don’t want to be a part of.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Aug 15, 2018 21:33:18 GMT -8
Quick hint: Dig before you need it. I know my body, and can dig the hole in the evening for my morning rituals. And dig it far away from camp. I generally have a similar morning ritual. So I walk down the trail a pretty good distance to find a good place to get off the trail to do my business. This lessens the impact around camp sites. Many camp sites I have visited have a nearby "garden" of poop. To me it is no big deal to walk a ways to get away from that. I usually don't forget where it is but will nonetheless leave a stick marker ten feet or so away to remind me this is where I leave the trail. In the Washington Cascades and Olympic Peninsula, digging a cat hole six to eight inches deep without a trowel is nearly impossible. It is often not easy even with the trowel. Carry one and be a good steward of the backcountry. Rumi
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Post by cweston on Aug 16, 2018 8:08:35 GMT -8
I carry TP, one wet-wipe per day, and a regular ziplock bag for the used TP: all of this inside a heavy odor-proof zip bag (Opsak). I may try substituting the small kleenex packs for TP, though--that sounds like a good idea. Can anyone help with how many wipes a package might be good for?
I carry a trowel unless I am carrying an ice axe: ice axes make awesome cat holes.
No lighter or fire-starter: I always pack out my TP.
The wet-wipe can provide a nice little daily sponge bath after taking care of business: you just have to pay careful attention to the sequence of places the wipe touches, leaving the worst for last. I take it out and wipe my mouth with it first, before attending to the main business (unless the main business is too urgent to allow for this).
I also prefer to dig a cathole in advance for morning usage, although every now and then I am unable to find it, which is irritating.
I never, ever fail to dig a cathole, unless I am blue-bagging. (The technique I favor there is to put down a paper towel or some TP folded over itself a couple times, and aim for that. Then you can shepherd it into the bag. Going directly into the bag is beyond my skill level, apparently, and the consequences of error are pretty awful. On a glacier, you can go right onto the ice and, if you have time, let it chill for several minutes, which makes it much easier to corral into the blue bag.)
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Aug 16, 2018 8:36:58 GMT -8
Can anyone help with how many wipes a package might be good for? Isn't that totally dependent on other factors? Consistency seems to vary by consumption. Some poop leaves no trace. Some poop leaves behind a veritable trail of tears.
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Post by cweston on Aug 16, 2018 8:42:46 GMT -8
Isn't that totally dependent on other factors? Consistency seems to vary by consumption. Some poop leaves no trace. Some poop leaves behind a veritable trail of tears. Well yes, of course. I guess what I really meant is do we know how many sheets are in one of those packages. I'm so glad we get to talk about this matter in detail, though.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Aug 16, 2018 8:58:24 GMT -8
10 tissues per pack.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Aug 16, 2018 9:11:00 GMT -8
The wet-wipe can provide a nice little daily sponge bath after taking care of business: I generally budget two wipes a day for cleaning. On most desert trips I use no water for that purpose.
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Post by cweston on Aug 16, 2018 9:39:14 GMT -8
Hmm. I'm having trouble reconciling this fact (verified just now by the Google) with this statement from Rebecca, who is, as you are apparently quite aware per forum lore, a girl: I use pretty much the standard kit, though instead of TP, I carry a packet or two of kleenex (you know the pocket packs). It's much tougher than TP, and you can use a whole or half sheet as needed. Now, I'm no expert on these things, but I do have it on good authority that girls use more TP than boys. I can't imagine 10-20 sheets being enough for a multi-day trip for me, let alone for a girl. Something ain't adding up, and I intend to take a swipe at getting to the bottom of it.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Aug 16, 2018 9:54:43 GMT -8
Isn't that totally dependent on other factors? Consistency seems to vary by consumption. Some poop leaves no trace. Some poop leaves behind a veritable trail of tears. And some people's genetics makes cleanup more of a task than others. I have hairy Viking genetics that means ... well use yer imagination. Rumi <~~~~~norseman
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