|
Post by bradmacmt on Oct 15, 2015 4:38:50 GMT -8
Based on the responses on this thread I'd say big pharma is winning the battle for hearts and minds. As MM references, I know a guy currently dealing with Guillain Barre as a result of taking the flu shot. Other nations smartly downplay the need for the flu shot for good reason. It's just not needed in healthy adults, and the side-effects are truly awful... A good, balanced overview: www.cnn.com/2013/01/17/health/flu-vaccine-policy/
|
|
walkswithblackflies
Trail Wise!
Resident terrorist-supporting eco-freak bootlicker
Posts: 6,934
|
Post by walkswithblackflies on Oct 15, 2015 5:05:50 GMT -8
It gets a bit trickier when it's a condition of employment.
|
|
walkswithblackflies
Trail Wise!
Resident terrorist-supporting eco-freak bootlicker
Posts: 6,934
|
Post by walkswithblackflies on Oct 15, 2015 5:06:08 GMT -8
Glad to see you're back MM!!!
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,688
|
Post by rebeccad on Oct 15, 2015 19:28:20 GMT -8
From the CDC: "There may be a small increased risk of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) after inactivated flu vaccine. This risk has been estimated at 1 or 2 additional cases per million people vaccinated. This is much lower than the risk of severe complications from flu, which can be prevented by flu vaccine."
Also: "Any medication can cause a severe allergic reaction. Such reactions from a vaccine are very rare, estimated at about 1 in a million doses, and would happen within a few minutes to a few hours after the vaccination."
|
|
texasbb
Trail Wise!
Hates chicken
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by texasbb on Oct 15, 2015 20:25:55 GMT -8
From the CDC: "There may be a small increased risk of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) after inactivated flu vaccine. This risk has been estimated at 1 or 2 additional cases per million people vaccinated. This is much lower than the risk of severe complications from flu, which can be prevented by flu vaccine." Notice the wording: " can be prevented by flu vaccine" (i.e., not "will be"). As noted earlier, the effectiveness of the flu vaccine is about 60% in a good year, 10% in a bad year. Has that been factored in? Also, the "risk of severe complications from flu" varies a lot with age and health. So is the GBS risk "much lower" than the flu risk to a healthy, mountain-hiking thirty-something? And does the CDC's statement account for the fact that flu effectiveness is worse among those over 65, who just happen to be the ones most vulnerable to flu complications? Finally, GBS isn't the only risk of the shot--we don't know all of them, especially considering that every year's vaccine is a new one. I wish it were a better picture, as it is with most of the other well-known vaccines, but I haven't seen any numbers that make me a flu shot fan. At least not yet. I do hope they keep trying.
|
|
toejam
Trail Wise!
Hiking to raise awareness
Posts: 1,795
|
Post by toejam on Oct 16, 2015 4:40:28 GMT -8
I'm a fan of vaccinations, seat belts, etc. But I haven't had a flu shot in a while and haven't had the flu either. My decision to skip the vaccine is based on hearing that the formula is new every year and based on some government employees projections (Scientific Wild Ass Guesses as we call them in my line of work) of the strains they think will be most dangerous in the comming season. That doesn't seem like good science to me and my predjudice is bolstered by the reported 60% effectiveness rates.
But I don't really know anything about medicine. I hope someone here can educate me. The idea of making up a new formula every year to try to deal with dozens of flu strains makes that vaccine seem very different in my mind than vaccines for classic diseases like polio and smallpox.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,688
|
Post by rebeccad on Oct 16, 2015 8:33:50 GMT -8
he idea of making up a new formula every year to try to deal with dozens of flu strains makes that vaccine seem very different in my mind than vaccines for classic diseases like polio and smallpox. Sadly, that does seem like the biggest issue. So far, they haven't been able to come up with a broad-spectrum vaccine that can cover all the mutations (same reason there's no vaccine for the common cold--it mutates constantly). If not a more universal flu vaccine, it would be a huge help if they could find a way to develop and culture it faster--so they wouldn't have to guess what strain will be the biggie in any given year. (It occurs to me to wonder if this might be a self-creating problem: guess the strain, vaccinate against it, and--surprise--it's a different strain that spreads! Also, the "risk of severe complications from flu" varies a lot with age and health. So is the GBS risk "much lower" than the flu risk to a healthy, mountain-hiking thirty-something? Quite possibly not. I don't think I've been saying every single person should get it (if you look, you'll note I backed Travis in his reasons for skipping it). But for those who are significantly exposed, are older or spend time with the elderly or children, or some like me who've had pneumonia and are therefore at greater risk of respiratory issues, it seems a no-brainer. You can worry all day about the side effects that haven't been discovered, but if you read around in the scientific lit (as opposed to popular writings or the web pages put up by lawyers who sue for vaccine injury), it's actually fairly reassuring. They aren't tossing these things out there with a shrug and ignoring it all. I thought the article on why the US pushes the vaccine so much more than most other countries made an interesting point about our lack of paid sick leave and poor health care coverage. Yeah, the consequences of getting the flu aren't that big for most healthy young people--unless missing a week or two of work, and maybe needed to see a doctor (though an ordinary case of flu shouldn't need that) means you can't pay your rent, get evicted, lose your job, etc. (Oops--to TPA we go!).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 9:18:33 GMT -8
(if you look, you'll note I backed Travis in his reasons for skipping it) I do appreciate the consideration. Honestly, for this year, I really haven't made up my mind, yet. I did note that medical professionals in this state are suggesting timing the shot for later in autumn, delaying even up to late November, because Wyoming's "flu season" (December through April or so) is too late to hope for adequate protection from shots taken this early in the season. It's an interesting thread, however, and I appreciate reading various perspectives — as well as some others I've read. But I'm not inclined to post them. Unlike other threads, this is not one I care to stir the pot over. The controversy is brewing quite nicely as things are, thank you.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,688
|
Post by rebeccad on Oct 16, 2015 12:55:48 GMT -8
Travis, I appreciated your input about the timing of the shots, and their short effectiveness. I haven't heard much about that, maybe because our flu season is earlier, or maybe because in our climate it never stops, or...but it makes me feel better about usually not getting it until closer to peak season
|
|
|
Post by dirthurts on Oct 17, 2015 4:47:06 GMT -8
I think a lot of people get the cold and call it the flu. I don't think people realize how incredibly terrible the real flu can be, and it does kill people. I just started teaching high-school, so yeah I'm going to be getting one as soon as I get a chance to get my breath. They certainly work, and unlike antibiotics, there isn't an overuse clause. These harness your own immune response, not a chemical that viruses and such will become immune to. Your immune system can adapt to (practically) anything given the chance.
|
|
cajun
Trail Wise!
GEAUX TIGERS!!
Posts: 189
|
Post by cajun on Oct 21, 2015 18:05:35 GMT -8
Oh shoot! I meant to get my flu shot today ... maybe I'll remember tomorrow. I have had the flu several times, and it's absolutely miserable. I've never gotten it when I've had the flu shot, so I get it pretty much every year.
|
|
walkswithblackflies
Trail Wise!
Resident terrorist-supporting eco-freak bootlicker
Posts: 6,934
|
Post by walkswithblackflies on Oct 22, 2015 4:09:36 GMT -8
Just here to report that I've had minor nasal issues and an occasional cough ever since getting my shot (two weeks ago). Otherwise I feel 100%... they're just annoying. I don't think it's directly related to the shots, as the symptoms aren't the same as flu. Maybe indirectly? I dunno. The timing just seems a little too perfect to be purely coincidental.
ETA: If it means that I suffer these minor symptoms to avoid the flu, I'm all for it.
|
|
|
Post by Coolkat on Oct 22, 2015 5:28:01 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing your story MM. Just this year I had a cousin die from complications of Guillain-Barré Syndrome. He came down with the symptoms just a day or two after getting the flu shot. Years and Years ago because my work covers flu shots I decided to get one for the first time. I came down with the flu the next day. Never again.
|
|
BigLoad
Trail Wise!
Pancakes!
Posts: 12,939
|
Post by BigLoad on Oct 22, 2015 7:29:22 GMT -8
Yikes!
|
|
gabby
Trail Wise!
Posts: 4,539
|
Post by gabby on Oct 22, 2015 9:12:49 GMT -8
I do not believe for a moment I ever got the flu from the shot. However I do believe I should have listened to my spouse when he had the vibe that something was up with my immune system. The Lord reaches us through many means and in this case I was being stubborn and ignoring a dire warning. I was so sick when I came down with Miller Fisher variant of GB that I first thought I would die.... then I got worse and was afraid I would NOT die. That is mighty sick to wish for death. You are welcome. Knowing that absolutely no one in my neurologist's office ever gets a flu shot was quite eye opening! He is a Christian doctor as well. I had trouble swallowing, breathing, speaking, walking, eyes paralyzed, double vision, vertigo, poor sense of where my limbs were in relation to my body when my eyes were closed. I am so sorry for the loss of your cousin. I have cared for several GB patients and thankfully they all made it. GS is a long miserable illness and a long road back to recovery and health. There was a man in the hospital who had the same illness as me at the same time. He was much sicker. I went to church and had the pastor and the church members lay hands upon me and annoint me for healing. When I went to be annointed I claimed healing for the sick man. I did not know his name. Only that he was sicker than me. At a later visit to the doctor I asked only if he was well? The doctor exclaimed that yes he was recovering quickly. God is good every single day. My season in Hell was not in vain. The drs told me they had never seen a woman have this illness before and they had never seen anyone recover as fast. I asked if I could just quit coming to the neuro dr. He said yes! That I had graduated. ;-) Yikes indeed. Since GB is triggered by various specific infections caused by bacteria & viruses - gastrointestinal & upper respiratory just being the most common - and the most likely candidate for flu vaccine triggering GB is the weakened virus itself in the vaccine, and given the rare incidence of GB, it seems a reasonable precaution would be to test first for susceptibility rather than publicly condemn the vaccine as "useless" and "dangerous". In fact, flu itself can trigger GB acc. to the information I have seen. Let me suggest that it is obvious that you wear your superstitions on your sleeve.
|
|