hikers behaving badly article

Does a tent constitute a private environment?

What if it's a big one? With open sides?

Actually I won't even attempt to because I think you are probably right.

I'd say that's accurate enough as a general principle. There may be some context that could place that principle in question, but without more details on circumstances, that's the place to start.

The Maine state law as applied on Kitahdin and in Baxter State Park is not at all unusual. Most states have similar laws, and the vast majority of places we backpack are probably covered by laws similar to those in Maine. But as Desert Dweller suggests, the laws (and interpretations) can vary from state to state.

A person can go through case law and court decisions for any particular state or jurisdiction, but most of us don't seem to have had a big problem with it. Lots of members in these forums have included drinks in their trip planning for refreshment later in camp. And they've done so apparently without a problem and probably within the law.

But if some guy announces his actions ahead of time, walks up to a small crowd of people, where crowding is actually prohibited, yet in the most public spot in a vicinity, opens a bottle in front of commercial camera crews, flagrantly blows the top of his drink into the air, and takes a big swig while openly relishing the publicity he sought — well, then he has just broken the law of almost any state in this country. There are not many jurisdictions where that would be legal.

A private backcountry campsite is a very different setting.

You've ignored most everything written in this thread in favor of a crude personal insult aimed at other posters, myself among them. That says more about you than about anyone here.


Public consumption is both a Maine state law and a state park rule. If you have a copy of the citations given to Jurek, post them here. We'll see. So he spends a lot of money on lawyers and gets off? What's he complaining about? You know the cliché: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Odd fact is that in over 40 years of backpacking, I've never had to spend a cent on lawyers. Too bad he has such tough luck, eh?

The point is: Jurek is not special. Once you understand that, all the hoopla he started fades away.

If Jurek gets special privileges, then how about senior citizens? How about veterans? How about the handicapped? How about anyone recovering from a knee injury who manages after months of healing to make it to the top of Katahdin? How about the hundreds of other through-hikers who make it to Katahdin? Many actually slept on the ground.

Shall we let them all celebrate the same way? What makes anyone of them less special than Jurek? And how about they all spill a quarter cup or so of beer or whiskey or whatever at the top of Katahdin? You think that is fine for an area intended to be preserved as wilderness?

How about those hundreds or thousands of visitors spill the alcohol on your living room carpet? Then you can report back to us on how satisfying you find that stink. Oh, and if you're married, let us know how your wife likes cleaning up the mess — since you don't mind it.

You folks pretty much summed it all up already - a trend toward a lack of outdoor ethics, and an overblown sense of entitlement.

Funny that this should occur now. This past month, our newspaper here in Gunnison had a series of articles about the overuse/abuse of the outdoors in Gunnison County. It has come to a head in Gothic, a ghost town north of Crested Butte that now houses the RMBL (Rocky Mountain Biological Lab). They have had problems with people trespassing, parking near or in their testing sites, speeding through town, not parking at the trailhead for Copper Lake and East Maroon Pass, and a host of other problems. The entitlement issue was brought out at one point, when the article pointed out that people stopped for whatever infraction argued with the RMBL people saying they had a right in a place where they had no right.

It used to be that people were respectful of private property, and obeyed the rules on public land. But, there seems to be a trend away from that.

I had a letter to the editor in our paper last week, as a result of those articles about Gothic and land use. And in it, I pointed out my own experiences with hikers in recent years. I hiked the Colorado Trail in 1992, the same year I moved to Gunnison. And since then, most years I had maintained a cache of sodas for hikers in the middle of a 4-day boring stretch of Colorado Trail/Continental Divide Trail. I had a couple of styrofoam coolers filled with sodas, as well as a black garbage bag for hikers to leave trail trash, and a log book. All I asked is that people use the garbage bag and not leave trash lying around, and that they return the log book to the two zip-lock bags I provided to protect it from the elements. About 5 or 6 years ago, people started leaving that site trashed. And, about 5 or 6 years ago, they started leaving the journal out in the open. Two years ago, after finding that place trashed once again, and the journal soggy, I yanked the coolers mid-season. I went to a forum frequented by long-distance hikers, and made a post apologizing for discontinuing support at that location, along with my reasons why. It spawned a lot of replies. Although I had a lot of support, three quarters of the replies attacked me saying that I should continue supplying sodas there, and shouldn't have any requirements or ulterior motives for doing so. I should supply sodas simply for the joy of doing so, soggy journal or no soggy journal, trashed site or not trashed site. To me, that was the ultimate in entitlement. I have not had sodas for hikers put out these past two seasons.