amaruq
Trail Wise!
Call me Little Spoon
Posts: 1,264
|
Post by amaruq on Aug 31, 2015 4:31:58 GMT -8
My feelings exactly. I admire his physical accomplishment--but as far as I'm concerned, speed records on the long trails are contrary to the point of the trails. And having his wife meet him every night so he can sleep in a van--yeah, not my idea of a through-hike. My thoughts exactly. What was the point of doing the trail if he was just going to meet his wife and sleep in the van? He could have just run up the side of the highway for that matter. Guess "Man runs from Georgia to Maine" doesn't have the same ring to it. Or perhaps if it wasn't on the trail, it would not have been a record running time for that distance. I can't speak to the US long trails, but my experiences here can be summed up as noticeably increasing numbers on the trails, yet seemingly no increase in bad apples (crossing maybe one rowdy, devil-may-care group a season). LNT is fairly ubiquitous here with all our major outdoor gear retailers readily hocking it alongside their wares.
|
|
johnnyray
Trail Wise!
Argle-Bargle, Jiggery-Pokery, and Applesauce
Posts: 2,050
|
Post by johnnyray on Aug 31, 2015 7:23:17 GMT -8
Seems to me there was a movie a while back that had some fly fishing in it and spawned a huge increase in interest in the sport. Friends and myself included complained about the increased number of anglers and the lack of manners on the streams. That has largely subsided, enthusiasm just seemed to taper off. I also think the economic downturn had a lot to do with it, many fly shops have since closed. It may well be the same thing here. A spell of great interest and big sales in gear which will then decline, hopefully without another recession though.
|
|
toejam
Trail Wise!
Hiking to raise awareness
Posts: 1,795
|
Post by toejam on Aug 31, 2015 11:21:22 GMT -8
Having just completed my first thru-hike of a very popular trail with a name that sounds impressive when posted on Facebook, I laugh at any idiot who thinks they'll get solitude or a wilderness experience on one of these trails. As long as the bad-behaving morons think these are the only trails to hike, it leaves the thousands of other great trails to those of us who know how to find real solitude and wilderness experience.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 31, 2015 14:14:51 GMT -8
In the west one solution is hike the route but sleep OFF of it. No matter a route's popularity there's always a ridgeline people don't bother to climb... Though hikers then must just deal and everyone else probably dodge the through hike season?
|
|
|
Post by rwtb123 on Aug 31, 2015 15:47:12 GMT -8
One solution I've seen experienced AT thruhikers use is a flipflop.Start in Maine and head southbound until they start running into the northbounders then flip down to Ga and head northbound to where they left off.And like you say camp just out of site of the trail versus the shelters.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,689
|
Post by rebeccad on Aug 31, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -8
I think that clearly those who wish to drink to celebrate completion of the trail should end it in BAR Harbor :D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 18:15:56 GMT -8
Given the age of most of the posters I find your responses amusing. Like they say, you become your parents. "Kids today".
I'm sure we've all met inconsiderate (to us) people on the trail. What I don't understand is using Jurek as the poster child as to what is wrong. He apparently tried to do everything by the book, including getting permission to pop a cork in Baxter. If I spill my gatorade in the wilderness, am I littering also? He apparently was steadfast in adhering to LNT principles. He also said his party was under 12. Not sure who you blame when the Park's Director claims that there were 15 in the welcoming party, but it does not appear that this was Jurek's fault. Chances are the director has a long stick stuck up his rear end. And, the fines are being appealed. Seems like a waste of Maine resources to pursue a petty civil issue.
In Colorado many of us followed along as two climbers tried for FTK's on the Colorado 14ers this summer. One set a new record. FTK's aren't my cup of tea...and they are well beyond anything that I am physically capable of, but they are still an amazing feat. I thought the mantra of most posters is HYOH. Seems like quite a few of you have changed to my way, or the highway.
I'll be heading out in one the Colorado Wilderness areas this weekend. I'll be hiking on trail and figure I may see as many as 3 people per day. I guess most of you don't have it as well. If something truly bothers you you need to first ask yourself whether it bothers you because you are just an old fart, or whether the behavior is truly obnoxious.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 19:44:26 GMT -8
Given the age of most of the posters I find your responses amusing. Like they say, you become your parents. "Kids today". If I'm a kid at age 62, more power to me. What I don't understand is using Jurek as the poster child as to what is wrong. Like I said, he made himself the poster child. The articles just noted the extreme example he set — in the wrong direction. He apparently tried to do everything by the book, including getting permission to pop a cork in Baxter. Anyone with any sense would get that permission in writing. And Jurek had plenty of time to file the necessary papers for that request. Putting up some bogus claim that one of his entourage asked permission at the last minute — with a crowd backing him up — is not the way you handle situations like asking special permission to break state park rules — and Maine State Law. Even if the park did not have that rule, the State of Maine forbids the public consumption by state law. Do you really think some miscellaneous ranger can, with merely an off-handed, "Oh, okay," grant permission for a crowd of partiers to break Maine State Law and park rules? Is that the way it works with a commercial enterprise such as Jurek's? I don't think Jurek is nearly so stupid as you portray him to be. Chances are the director has a long stick stuck up his rear end. Oh, that's what you think, do you? Did you read his Facebook post on the issue? Or is that just the sort of language you use in normal conversation? I thought the mantra of most posters is HYOH. Seems like quite a few of you have changed to my way, or the highway. Within the law, sir, within the law. Obey the few rules that apply — and they are not too many or too tough to understand — then, hike your own hike. Law first, hike second. HYOH is not license to break the law or wilderness / land-manager rules for where you choose to hike. You don't like the rules there? Then hike somewhere else. Now THAT choice is truly HYOH. I'll be heading out in one the Colorado Wilderness areas this weekend. I'll be hiking on trail and figure I may see as many as 3 people per day. I guess most of you don't have it as well. I think the Wyoming mountains and wildernesses I hike are a good enough match. I don't see anyone per day. If something truly bothers you you need to first ask yourself whether it bothers you because you are just an old fart, or whether the behavior is truly obnoxious. Let's see, when your post began, you were referring to other posters in this thread as "kids." Now you think they've become "old farts" in the few minutes it took to read your monolog? I doubt that your hasty thoughts took that long to pass.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,689
|
Post by rebeccad on Aug 31, 2015 19:53:03 GMT -8
Travis, I largely agree with you. But I think in that first line he was mocking us as being the old farts who go about grumbling about "kids today."
I'm happy to claim old fartdom if it means that I uphold the law and best LNT practices. And, for the record, I do hike in far less populated areas. But that doesn't meant that I don't give a [fart] for conditions in popular places.
Totally willing to let people HYOH, as Travis says, within the law. That means that I'll let them run the AT if they want (though yeah, I might mock them a bit for the luxury approach; most speed records are set with a level of support I find...odd. But hey, HYOH). But I won't let him off the hook for breaking the law. And I might not be very impressed by any of it.
|
|
Westy
Trail Wise!
Diagnosed w/Post-Trail Transition Syndrome
Posts: 1,960
|
Post by Westy on Sept 1, 2015 3:35:09 GMT -8
Actually none of us changed our minds or even came close to demonstrating a philosophic flip-flop as suggested by Mr. billg.
First the facts:
Associated Press: Scott Jurek, an ultramarathoner from Colorado who last month completed the trail in a record time of 46 days, eight hours.
Wikipedia: Ultramarathoner: An ultramarathon, also called ultra distance, is any footrace longer than the traditional marathon length of 42.195 kilometres (26.219 mi).
Merriam-Webster: hike verb/i]to walk a long distance especially for pleasure or exercise : to go on a hike
The Free Dictionary: HYOH Acronym Definition: Hike Your On Hike
Therefore based on the evidence and generally accepted interpretations of the terminology, my assessment indicates that Mr. Jurek was running in a race verses hiking a trail and therefore his actions, technique and style is not governable under the parameters of HYOH.
"I thought the mantra of most posters is HYOH. Seems like quite a few of you have changed to my way, or the highway." - Mr. billg I consider the claim and associated rhetoric referenced above, to be inaccurate and wholly untrue.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 5:32:14 GMT -8
Please note that in Westy's quote above it was billg who made the statement on HYOH, not I. The quote without typo error, would read: I thought the mantra of most posters is HYOH. Seems like quite a few of you have changed to my way, or the highway.
|
|
johnnyray
Trail Wise!
Argle-Bargle, Jiggery-Pokery, and Applesauce
Posts: 2,050
|
Post by johnnyray on Sept 1, 2015 5:56:19 GMT -8
HYOH as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else doing the same.
|
|
|
Post by OddBall on Sept 1, 2015 13:36:55 GMT -8
There is an element to society that seems to think that they are more important than others. This is a sad shift in American culture that used to promote independence and respect for others. Case in point, how many people have you seen that just throw their trash on the sidewalk while walking down the streets? Here in the Bay Area, the land of supposed environmental enlightenment, I'm appalled at how much trash is everywhere. From the streets to the rivers, you can't get away from it. People don't respect the environment and don't respect each other. This in part is why I love backpacking so much because generally speaking, most backpackers are the most environmentally conscious people there are.
My last backpacking trip my own encounter with the disrespectful to others element occurred on a section of the PCT near the Sierra Buttes. This happened to be OHV territory (something I didn't know at the time). Our first night we stayed at the OHV campground and we were sitting down at the lake enjoying a nice quite evening when around 10pm we heard this very low booming sound way off in the distance. It turned out to be a guy in his jacked up Bronco with a radio cranked full blast (guy must have had a pair of 12" woofers judging by how loud it was). He rolls in like he's a rockstar along with his boys in another jeep and motor cycle. There was some other OHV campers in the campground so they thankfully turned it off pretty quick.
We were happy to leave these people as we climbed from Gold Lake up to the PCT and headed toward the Buttes. We ended up at Deer lake where we enjoyed a blissful day of relaxation by sitting at the lake and watching the stars and just chatting. Would you believe it, we start to hear the low booming sound and after a few minutes, see headlights from this jeep. Now mind you, there was no actual road down to where we were, this guy just drove his jeep over the single track trail right down into our lake with all of his buddies and proceeded to hoot and holler and play his music. We where about a 1/4 mile away from him and yet it was so loud you could barely talk. As I tried to fall asleep in my tent by covering my ears, I stewed about ever possible way I would go over and give this guy an earful but reality set in that this guy was already drunk as a skunk and could be packing and confrontation wasn't in the cards. After about two hours they finally left.
The next day we were enjoying our nice peaceful little lake when again we hear the booming sound and with a sickening feeling in my stomach, we realize that this guy and his crew had decided to return to our lake to spend the afternoon. They drive their rigs down and played their music for about 4 hours! On top of that, one guy on a motorcycle thought it was so much fun to hammer through the marshy areas of the lake and tear it all up. If there was a 911 for rangers, I would have called it in but sadly, it wasn't possible. The guy finally left us but I couldn't have been any more disappointing after putting up with him for four days.
On our way out, we hiked back through the OHV campgrounds and back towards the parking lot. Talk about irony and twist of fate because we happened to be leaving at the same time this guy was also driving out. He actually looked sober around 10am and it was my chance to confront and tell him what an A-hole he had been to the entire mountain but I didn't want to get involved. A guy like that will do whatever he wants to do because he has no respect for others. My yelling at him wasn't about to change who he was.
So, sorry for the long ramble but the point is, when it comes to parks, I'm all for the rangers strictly enforcing the rules. This is also incumbent on us as we introduce others into the sport that we make it clear that zero impact doesn't just mean in picking up your own trash, it also means interacting in the wild in a way that doesn't impact other people's enjoyment of the same area.
|
|
|
Post by ashepabst on Sept 2, 2015 8:53:43 GMT -8
sure, enforce the rules, but enforce the spirit of the rules. I imagine that the spirit of an alcohol ban is to keep these places family friendly. I enjoy an adult beverage when I do, but I would certainly think twice about bringing baby girl into a situation with drunken strangers.
I typically bring a beer or two, or a swig of whiskey, on my backpack trips. and I do so in places where it's prohibited. if I can drink a beer without affecting anyone around me, have I done anything wrong?
of course it's silly and arrogant for Jurek to make an issue out of it. but it's also silly for the ranger to make an issue out of it. maybe they're both out for the publicity.
|
|
balzaccom
Trail Wise!
Waiting for spring...
Posts: 4,534
|
Post by balzaccom on Sept 2, 2015 9:29:38 GMT -8
If you want to make sure that the "authorities" overreact to something you do, talk to them, fully understand their regulations, and then tell them that you are going to violate a few of those, pretty much because you feel that you have the right to do that, no matter what they say.
Works every time.
|
|