david
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Post by david on Jan 17, 2017 14:50:21 GMT -8
I'm not much of a hiker, more of a paddler and camper...but I do every once in a blue moon get out on the trail. The last few days were spent in the Cades Cove area of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park where there is no cell phone reception at all. It occurred to me in the middle of a long hike whether or not there is any sort of line-of-sight electronic communications with would-be rescuers. While paddling, Channel 16 of my VHF radio serves this purpose but other than satellite-based locator beacons, I am unaware of anything like this for hiking. Do rescuers (e.g., in a helicopter) carry cell phone receivers so that communications are not dependent on towers? I'd hate to be hidden under the canopy, seeing a helicopter flying around looking for me, and have no way to say "hey...over here....a mile or so to your left" or whatever. Anyway, just curious.
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Post by johntpenca on Jan 17, 2017 17:11:35 GMT -8
Simple. Just don't put yourself in a situation in which you need rescue. I don't mean to come across as "holier than thou", but I've been hiking, climbing and b/c skiing ( mostly solo) for over 40 years and never felt the need a rescue or rescue device. Work within your experience level and back off if you feel you are entering a dangerous situation. Maybe it is because I was raised at a time when needing a rescue was a cardinal sin.
That said, look into a Spot or satellite phone if you feel the need.
Welcome to the forum, lots of good people here.
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toejam
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Hiking to raise awareness
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Post by toejam on Jan 17, 2017 19:01:02 GMT -8
When I rep the Forest Service on volunteer projects they give us a sat phone and a radio to carry. The sat phone works like a phone and we use it for checking in & out every day and talking to the ranger. They say the radio is the way to communicate with a helicopter - never had to do that and not confident I'd find the right channel. Probably have to call dispatch on the sat phone for directions to use the radio.
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david
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Post by david on Jan 17, 2017 19:29:29 GMT -8
I'm not suggesting that a means to facilitate rescue should be used as an excuse for poor preparation or a casual attitude towards risk-taking, but shit happens. You badly twist your ankle, get bit by a poisonous viper, have an attack of appendicitis or a coronary. You can't control everything. Anyway, I'm just curious if S&R teams can make use of your cell phone even if there are no towers nearby. I don't know the ins and outs of the technology but on the surface, it doesn't sound that difficult and since every one carries a cell phone these days, probably a good idea.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jan 17, 2017 20:31:25 GMT -8
I don't see any way they could make use of your cell if you were out of range. I do know that if there are cell towers, they can determine your location relatively accurately but have to jump through hoops to get permission to do so. I bring a 2-way radio and cell phone in winter and often get cell signal when I would not expect to. I also have bright orange, red, and yellow reflective material in much of my gear as well as reflective trip tease guy out line that can be used to spell out "Help" and be seen in the dark from above. As stated, the Spot and other such devices can also be used.
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david
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Post by david on Jan 17, 2017 20:53:03 GMT -8
Well, what I am wondering is that for S&R work, couldn't search teams carry a mobile receiver with them to receive cell phone signals even when there are no fixed, permanent towers nearby. From Wikipedia..."Researchers at Alcatel-Lucent have developed a cell site called lightRadio that fits in the palm of a person's hand. It is the size of a Rubik's cube. It is capable of relaying 2G, 3G and 4G signals." Again, I have, at best, a superficial understanding of the technology but given the ubiquity of cell phones nowadays it seems like a way to receive signals independent of towers would be invaluable for S&R work and not especially difficult from a technical standpoint.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 18, 2017 3:03:23 GMT -8
Accidents are precisely that. So "just don't get hurt" is, impractical.
Step off the trail to take a dump, get water, cook, or go to sleep and an immobilizing injury is possible. Heck ON what often passes for trails a hiker can get immobilized with a blown out knee or shattered leg.
So some sort of safety gear isn't unreasonable to consider.
The trouble with cellphone tech is they depend on high powered towers so their own output is weak, those microcells have the same issue, low power and so low range. In a fixed situation they can just get seeded more densely. Out in the wild it would mean a very fine toothed comb of limited effectiveness I suspect.
One source;". Coverage is a function of power, and a 6-cm cube is only going to be able to handle so much power," Jude told TechNewsWorld. "This approach could certainly improve coverage in urban areas, but it would be a total bust in rural areas, because the coverage footprint would be rather small.""
That said I recall one rescue (Alaska? Washington state?) where a private individual did a flyover search using some sort of cellphone detrctor to localize a search. So simple cross bearing detection may already be deployed. With the gaining ubiquity of powerpacks and solar panels the older thought that cellphones were too short lived for search and rescue use may be fading as well.
Still prefer my beacon. It's designed for that after all not Pokémon Go
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Jan 18, 2017 6:04:37 GMT -8
Supposedly at least one of the inReach products can do 2-way with the helicopter itself to help guide them in an SAR situation (maybe the helicopter needs a cell phone, gotta check). Rescue copters usually don't have the mean to locate a cell phone signal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 6:12:33 GMT -8
david Sure there are products out there that let you contact or notify that you are in trouble and in need of rescue. The one I would take, if I felt the need to take something, would be a Sat phone with the numbers of the county sheriff's of the areas you backpack.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jan 18, 2017 8:37:05 GMT -8
Well, what I am wondering is that for S&R work, couldn't search teams carry a mobile receiver with them to receive cell phone signals even when there are no fixed, permanent towers nearby. From Wikipedia..."Researchers at Alcatel-Lucent have developed a cell site called lightRadio that fits in the palm of a person's hand. It is the size of a Rubik's cube. It is capable of relaying 2G, 3G and 4G signals." Again, I have, at best, a superficial understanding of the technology but given the ubiquity of cell phones nowadays it seems like a way to receive signals independent of towers would be invaluable for S&R work and not especially difficult from a technical standpoint. I'm looking at this and seeing something that might be of use to S&R teams--not that an individual would be using it, or depending on it, but one more tool for S&R. It does seem an inevitable development, though the person on the ground would have to be checking their phone to see that suddenly they had a signal where they didn't before, so it might be of limited use for finding the lost person--but maybe of great use in keeping the team coordinated, without radios which are expensive and also depend on line-of-sight.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Jan 18, 2017 9:52:06 GMT -8
...I also have bright...red...reflective material in much of my gear... ...as well as reflective trip tease... With your avatar right there, my brain saw that second phrase as "reflective striptease"...
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Post by Lamebeaver on Jan 18, 2017 11:39:29 GMT -8
Many of us carry a PLB which transmits location information in addition to a directional beacon. No need to say "I'm right here", they know where you're at.
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Post by dayhiker on Jan 18, 2017 12:03:49 GMT -8
I doubt they would want the public to know what frequency they use as they would want to keep it clear most of the time. I once asked a NP ranger and he just told me to use a nearby repeater (which I could only occasionally hit). I read a book about a Ranger who went missing in the Sierras. I am surprised their radios worked in those places. I dont know if they use CB,Ham,FRMs or GRMs etc. I think they have a limited number of channels which makes me think it is not ham.
I too use a PLB, but I posted recently a link to article that explains its GPS might not be that accurate in some situations, like slot canyons etc.
I know the police or emergency responders etc. have their own dell tower at the top of one of my hikes in Oregon.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Jan 18, 2017 12:23:04 GMT -8
In a slot canyon, the range of any small portable radio is going to be severely limited. This is why it's important to leave a detailed itinerary with someone. You can't always rely on technology.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 12:31:14 GMT -8
LamebeaverWe also leave the number to the sheriff departments of the counties that we will be in. It is the sheriff that holds the purse strings for a search and rescue attempt. We give instructions to call the sheriff on such and such a date if we have not contacted 'you' by then. We typically give 2 or 3 days past our due back date.
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