Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 3:19:20 GMT -8
Of course I check, but like many it sounds like I don't necessarily bail. To that end I am not really obsessed about instant info, especially since I often go places where I get out of cell range, or am in a cell shadow and can't check anyway.
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Post by hangingtrekker on Aug 11, 2016 5:27:17 GMT -8
"Should" implies a value system — in this case your value system imposed upon other hikers. It's a Hike-Your-Own-Hike situation. If you look at maps of severe thunderstorm activity, the PNW, where you live, shows a very low incidence of severe thunderstorms. They are far more likely in Wyoming and even more likely east of here. I spent a full day this last week hiking when severe thunderstorms were "likely." In fact, it has been that way for a month or more in my area. Just in Wyoming, literally thousands of other people were also out hiking during that time. Did any of us die because of it? People have been killed in ideal weather. But that is no reason we "should" avoid hiking during ideal weather. It is extremely difficult to pick any summer week in Wyoming when a backpacker can be free from the likelihood of severe thunderstorm activity. The thousands of backpackers who flock to Wyoming to backpack the Wind River Range, Yellowstone and so on are voting with their feet against your value system. "Messing with mother nature," as you call it, is what we do — all of us. All very good points. In a previous post I stated: (original typed on an iPhone, I corrected a couple typos) Part of backpacking is being prepared. Since one's existence while backpacking is, by definition, in the elements it would seem highly important to know what the elements may realistically throw at you. .... There are times it would be wise to not go, but adventure carries risk and backpacking is, by nature, an exercise in preparedness. Base your decisions of going or holding off on your skill set, comfort level, and confidence level. If you dont have the experience then it is too easy to get over-confident and put yourself in a real bad spot. With experience you may just end up a little more uncomfortable Here's the thing. The topic was started by a new member. She asked us what we do. She did not ask us for advice on what she "should" do. How can we know that? We don't know where she is from. We don't know how experienced she is. We don't know where she backpacks. We don't know what she considers "bad weather." If we correlate "bad weather" to "severe weather" there is a big difference across North America. If someone lives in the PNW, it is a lot easier to claim they stay home during severe thunderstorms because that requires very little change of plans. Compare that to someone in a state where severe thunderstorms are common or a near daily possibility and the idea of staying home falls apart pretty quickly. Severe thunderstorms are not limited to high elevations. In fact, they are far more common in the lower elevations of the country. It's a risky thing to give other people advice when we don't even know where they hike. So I go back to the OP's question. She asked us what we do — not what we think she "should" do. We know almost nothing about her. Agreed. I started backpacking over 10 years ago. I know there are a lot of others here that have a lot more trail time than I do, so I am in no way discounting that or trying to go over top of any of that knowledge/background, rather providing a foundation for my comments here. When I started backpacking I thought I wanted to, first off. I thought I was prepared, second. I was explained the scenario and, from a beginners perspective, the trip organizers of that first trip (was with a club at the time) were laying down the “bad and ugly” to make sure I knew the constraints to how the trip was going to go and what we “may” face. I took their comments/advice head on because I had the drive to get out and do it. With what I knew going on the trip, and what gear I had, I figured I would make the trip. So I went. And I got my a$$ handed to me. I made the 3 days, but could barely walk and I was frozen as solid as a board on the second night with temps dipping to the 20's. From that point on I made it a point to be prepared. I was with an experienced group on that first trip, so I was in good company for sure. What I have learned, and what I stress to any newcomers to backpacking, whether you have never gone on a trip, or you have a couple under your belt, is that a plan is only a rough guide as to what you are going to do. It will give you the destination. It may give you the trails as well. However, the trip wont really unfold until you are there and in the elements. I consider that part of backpacking and I have come to enjoy it. Knowing what the weather may throw at you is very important to a trip. That has more governing as to what happens on my trips than anything else. If it is warm we may trim the miles back. If there is a lot of wind we may stick to lower elevations. If there is a lot of rain we will set camp higher than where streams are, and not find a bowl to camp in. That is all part of the experience. I could have done without some of the discomfort on some of my trips, but I am grateful for the experiences. The tropical storm rain is not something I want to repeat, but I am still grateful for having hiked in that just for the experience. Without having experience it is a lot harder to gauge what you are getting in to. The “catch 22” of it is you need to get out of your comfort zone to build that knowledge. That has to carry risk, no two ways about it. If you are with an experienced person/group that can make things a lot easier, but you aren't going to gain experience reading these forums, reading books, or watching TV sitting on the couch. You have to do it and be in in it. You have to have failures. As I said before - Part of backpacking is being prepared. That goes for the gear you take, but that also comes with the underlying thought that you have to be mentally prepared as well. Experience will show you that the great outdoors can be unforgiving and harsh. If you have experienced that, to what ever degree, then you become more accepting to the conditions that can happen out there. That isn't to say you should go out in all bad weather conditions, that's just dumb to think so. It does mean, though, that the weather can be managed and, if it isn't perfect, the weather doesn't have to break a trip. It just might not be “ideal”. That is backpacking – maintain an open mind and accept that you will not be as cozy as sleeping in your own bed with the AC or heat (depending on the season) on. The wider range of weather you have experienced the more accepting you will be, and the more comfortable you will be, across a wider range of conditions. That takes time to build up to and only you can be your own gauge. What are you accustomed to? What are the local conditions? What is the worst that can happen? What is the worst you have experienced?
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Aug 11, 2016 6:55:20 GMT -8
My favorite trips have been bad weather trips. Part of what I like about backpacking is the adventure. In my book, weather = adventure. I've been in 100 mph blizzards, had 5 inches of rain dump over a two day period, had rain for 5 days straight and felt like my campsite was a lake, Had five feet of snow bury the tent overnight, had fluctuations of 90 degree days switch to 5 degree nights, been in -60 temps, and hiked through sleet/hail storms. I pick specific trips due to the chances of extreme weather. I prepare accordingly.
I realize that is not for everyone. For me personally, it puts a grin on my face. I absolutely love it. I still do a few mid-summer fair weather hikes, but I get really excited the rest of the year due to the added challenge.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Aug 11, 2016 12:24:24 GMT -8
My hiking plan has often been cancelled because of the bad weather. Do you guys have the same problem too? If so, do you have any suggestions to acquire the instant weather info? This is the original post in this thread. What the OP means by bad weather is not defined. In terms of backpacking that usually means something like rain, but that is only an assumption. Bad weather means different things to different people. But consulting the weather forecast is always a good idea so that a person can get an idea of the possible weather conditions. One of the key things about consulting a weather forecast is to know what the forecast is telling you. So what is the difference between rain and showers? What does it mean when there is a 30% chance of showers after 4pm? Another thing is what is the significance of "severe" weather? Some here seem to only be focused on thunderstorms but there are more severe weather events than just thunderstorms. And not all thunderstorms are created equal. Most summer thunderstorms, which are called air-mass thunderstorms, are not considered severe thunderstorms. On the other hand, super-cell thunderstorms are almost always considered severe thunderstorms. But as I mentioned, there are waaaaaaaay more severe weather systems than just thunderstorms. Here is a primer on severe weather from NOAA. And that is just a starter about severe weather. You can buy books and find reliable information about your local weather patterns. So, what do you consider "bad" weather? I know what I mean when I use the term, but it is a separate category than "severe" weather conditions. I cringe when I read posts in this thread and elsewhere bragging about going out into severe weather. As stated before, most summer thunderstorms are not even considered "severe" weather conditions. And it is likely that with each telling of the story, the weather conditions get worse and worse. I remember one member TR here where the wind started out being 40mph and by the final retelling of the tale has morphed into 100+mph. Regardless, the bragging implies that real backpackers don't let "severe" weather deter them from their plans. I hope new backpackers don't fall for that bravado and use some good sense when faced with likely "severe" weather. I know of two weather related deaths of members of these forums here, though there may be more. I would hardly call that rare, though I suppose that depends on what you consider as rare. I was on one of those trips and witnessed the severe heat related death of the spouse of a long-time member here. It wasn't pretty and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Another was the death of ChuckD when a tree fell on him due to high winds. These were both backpacking trips. ChuckD died in Texas and April died in the Grand Canyon so I am not just referencing the severe weather in my local, the western coastal PNW, when I talk about severe weather and the dangers. Rumi
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 13:37:42 GMT -8
I check the weather before I go on trips. I begin checking the weather about 2 weeks before the trip start date. I use the current and 10 day weather info. screens. I also check InciWeb. The informaton from InciWeb can be useful. This weekend, I am headed out on a backpacking trip. I found from InciWeb the orginal driving route has been closed, due to a wildfire. Another resoure I use, but not limited to, are webcams. Sites such as the Idaho Aviation Foundation has webcams of some remote Airstrips, in Idaho, or sites like the one offered by Forks, Washington can offer views that have proven to be quite useful
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 13:46:35 GMT -8
From the National Weather Service forecast for today: Stay home or go? It's the hikers' decision. It's not the decision of some distant moralist advising "you shall" or "you shall not."
This weather forecast is a "watered down" version of the forecast in that area for most of the summer. It would be extremely improbably that anyone backpacking in that area could do a double-overnighter without venturing out in weather at least as bad as predicted above. These backpackers are "messing with mother nature," but it is their decision — not the decision of some distant moralist with some arbitrary "shoulds" to impose, when he himself lives and hikes in an area that seldom sees severe thunderstorms.
By the way, if a blizzard is what a hiker is concerned about in early August, I can only envy him or her. Severe thunderstorms are the severe weather most prevalent at this time of year for the area in question. What that severe weather is for someone else's area is for them to deliberate upon. I don't tell people what they "should" do.
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Aug 11, 2016 13:53:04 GMT -8
Travis -- Have you had much of a monsoon this year? My friend in FoCo notes that it was pretty much nonexistent until last week. It usually kicks in around early July in the central Rockies, IIRC.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 14:09:11 GMT -8
Travis -- Have you had much of a monsoon this year? My friend in FoCo notes that it was pretty much nonexistent until last week. It usually kicks in around early July in the central Rockies, IIRC. Northern Wyoming is rarely affected much by the monsoon season of the Southwest. Our wettest months are generally in late spring with dryer weather from mid-July into autumn. However, this year the weather does seem to be taking on something of a monsoon pattern. My immediate area has been a full stage beyond severe drought for the last month — because we did not get the moisture we rely on in springtime, that is, the usual pattern. That is also generally when we get the worst hailstorms. But for the last few weeks we've been getting regular thunderstorms, rain, and hail in some areas — a pattern that would seem to be more like the monsoon season of the Southwest. I've been puzzling over this for a while and waiting to see if it continues. We need rain badly. I'll take it any time of year we can get it.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 11, 2016 19:59:33 GMT -8
I check, but most often just to confirm I've the right gear mix not to cancel.
I use the hyper local app Dark Sky.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 11, 2016 20:35:51 GMT -8
Some of my most memorable trips were during raging blizzards. Not much of a fan of rain.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 11, 2016 23:37:53 GMT -8
Another was the death of ChuckD when a tree fell on him due to high winds. Really? Never met him but always enjoyed his posts. Makes me sad. So many thoughts going through my mind.
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Post by Coolkat on Aug 12, 2016 4:18:10 GMT -8
Another was the death of ChuckD when a tree fell on him due to high winds. These were both backpacking trips. Wow! How sad. I haven't been around long enough to know these people but it's still sad. I always eyeball the trees and branches around me when I make camp but I'm probably not as careful as I should be. I'll be doing a double take now. Especially on my next trip in a few weeks.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 4:58:28 GMT -8
I always eyeball the trees and branches around me when I make camp ... Now this is a piece of advice that I believe that a lot of new backpackers need, especially if they had no real mentor heading in. It astounded me recently when a cousin informed me that more hotshots had died in camp from widowmakers than in fires in her years on a crew. Her advice. Don't just look up, but also look up and out to the sides for 2-4 trees or more (because limbs can travel with a high wind). Also look at the trees themselves and try to ascertain if they are healthy, as 2 people died in an adjacent crew when a diseased tree fell on them in the night.
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Post by ecocentric on Aug 12, 2016 5:43:56 GMT -8
Depending on the trip, I may watch the weather for my destination for weeks to get a sense of the weather patterns. There have been a couple of times that a "thunderstorms possible" forecast should have warned me away from an outing, but I endured a few storms that make colorful stories of close calls. White water kayaking and ski touring always had me scanning the weather map for conditions that others would consider bad weather, but provided ideal conditions for our activities. I consider an altimeter/barometer to be an essential tool for forecasting bad weather in the wilderness, or making precise measurements at your immediate location.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 5:58:39 GMT -8
I consider an altimeter/barometer to be an essential tool for forecasting bad weather in the wilderness, or making precise measurements at your immediate location. We, also, carry an altimeter/barometer. We look for a changing barometer track as an indication of weather changes. I also use, 'red sky at night, sailors delight. red sky at dawn, sailors be warn' as a measure of possible weather conditions.
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