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Post by tipiwalter on Jul 27, 2016 9:44:28 GMT -8
This is what happens (pulled this pic off the interwad as it's not my pic---) Sure it's usable but is not self-healing and gets worse over time. Like the next 18 days of winter camping.
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Jul 27, 2016 11:07:55 GMT -8
Where on this thread was it mentioned it wasn't? From the Therm-a-Rest folks themselves (courtesy of Zeke): From Therm-a-rest themselves:"Another useful bit of knowledge is that you can generally draw the line between three-season and winter mattresses at an approximate R-value of 3.0.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jul 27, 2016 11:51:30 GMT -8
Okay I missed that. I agree with you and place 5R at the minimal basis for 0F temps.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Jul 27, 2016 12:24:13 GMT -8
Sure it's usable but is not self-healing and gets worse over time. Like the next 18 days of winter camping For that length of time I would be concerned whether the internal insulation is still in place or if it has moved around to the point of being ineffective.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jul 27, 2016 13:23:20 GMT -8
Or it's just dang uncomfortable. Try this test: Lay on the floor. Place a firm pillow under your back between your shoulder blades. Or right under your butt cheeks. Go to sleep. See you in 8 hours.
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franco
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Post by franco on Jul 27, 2016 15:27:48 GMT -8
We have had several days with a max daytime temperature of 7 c (44f) The other day it was sunny and at that temp I was working outside with just a 200 Merino T (and a beanie). Yesterday I was walking around in the same temp with that T plus a thick fleece and a down vest as well as the benie . The temp was the same but just grey and damp. The point here is that there are many variables when it comes to keeping/feeling warm.
From what I understand, R values are linear so an R 3.9 mat would give about 20% more insulation than a 3.2 mat or ,say, would compare with n 3.9" loft sleeping bag against one with a 3.2 " loft.
BTW : "Interestingly enough, with their method, the Thermarest pads test higher than their spec'ed values, while the Big Agnes pads generally come out lower." From memory Thermarest gives their R ratings at 80% inflation.
BTW 2 : Those bloated mat photos reminds me that it is a very good idea to never leave your mat somewhat inflated in the sun. Not that it is the only way the blow up happens but it can happen if you do.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jul 27, 2016 17:10:48 GMT -8
Over the years I've had about 8 Thermarest pads delaminate and form bubble-bladders. I emailed the company about it and they said it had to do with "body oils" and/or "overuse". Of course I understand a brand new pad could form a bubble if fully inflated and left inside a hot vehicle. All of my pads delaminated due probably to overuse---the constant day in and day out of full inflating and full body weight, along with humidity and oils and inside mold.
Beyond all this, Thermy needs to upgrade their industrial glues. After my first delaminating Thermy in 1982, they should've fixed this problem A LONG TIME AGO. It's a poor engineering flaw.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jul 27, 2016 17:22:07 GMT -8
After my first delaminating Thermy in 1982, they should've fixed this problem A LONG TIME AGO. It's a poor engineering flaw. So you've continued to buy what you consider a poorly engineered product since 1982. Fascinating.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Jul 27, 2016 17:44:38 GMT -8
Maybe they just need to admit the pads are designed for 30 nights per year.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jul 27, 2016 17:59:46 GMT -8
So you've continued to buy what you consider a poorly engineered product since 1982. Fascinating. You weren't reading previous posts. Eight out of 35 isn't bad, plus these pads were lived on and used daily for years. Remember the 21 years at the tipi? My only sleeping pads during that time (and consequent backpacking trips) have been Thermys. Long term use = more failures. Thermarest just hasn't yet figured out which glues to use. But then the same could be said for Exped baffle welding technology. Still trying to figure it out. People in the field get to use these items until they fail and then we offer feedback. It's called gear reviews.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jul 28, 2016 1:40:44 GMT -8
You weren't reading previous posts. I read them. Those, and several of your other posts over the years, complain about delaminating pads, and caching an extra one. But your rhetorical and self-answered question Are Thermarest pads bear proof? No they are not. was even further out than normal. Bearproof sleeping pad? Who expects that?
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Post by tipiwalter on Jul 28, 2016 4:40:04 GMT -8
was even further out than normal. Bearproof sleeping pad? Who expects that? Ever heard of sarcasm? My example isn't the only cached Thermarest that got discovered and shredded by a black bear in the Tennessee mountains--- Here is another pad eaten by a bear. I rarely resupply on my trips but a couple years ago I decided to place two bearvaults out in the area I was backpacking and dangit if a black bear didn't discover them and gnaw. He rolled both down a hillside and away from my cache site but never got into them. Next to the vaults I had an emergency Thermarest buried and he returned in frustration and ripped it apart.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jul 28, 2016 4:51:28 GMT -8
You can never have too many pics of a sleeping pad shredded by a bear.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jul 28, 2016 5:30:59 GMT -8
You can never have too many pics of a sleeping pad shredded by a bear. True. And you can never have too many pics of a tent set up in the snow---
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mk
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Post by mk on Jul 28, 2016 5:47:54 GMT -8
See -- if we were still just discussing the R-value of sleeping pads, this thread would be boring ...
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