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Post by aenlic on Apr 24, 2016 9:46:58 GMT -8
I've hiked for a long time, though not recently, and am getting ready to start backpacking. I have read and understand the advice on getting gear, and strive hard to accept the fact that some of my initial choices will end up being 'learning experiences...' but I also try when possible to purchase gear which continues to work well for me.
As I 'gear up,' I plan to start with long day hikes for which I use the gear (yes, all of it) I plan to use for overnights, then go for 1-2 nights. I don't intend to go 'ultralight,' but to enjoy my trip and bear the weight that results. (An example is that I include an Aeropress, coffee beans, and a manual coffee grinder. :-) )
One of the things which seems to really vary with the terrain and hike length for any trip is footwear. I expect that I will be doing far more day and weekend trips than longer, and my expectation is that a high, heavy-duty 'backpacking' boot would be overkill rather than 'money well spent.' I'm open to feedback which tells me (in polite terms) that I'm, er, 'incorrect.' I'm looking at lighter-weight, Goretex, mid-height boots which are appropriate for trips like this, which might stay in my kit if and when I decide to get a boot more suited to longer trips.
Examples of what I'm considering are the Vasque Breeze 2.0 GTX, the Vasque Inhaler II GTX, and the Salomon X Ultra Mid 2.0 GTX.
So... I'd love feedback on two levels: First, does this general approach to selecting initial footwear make sense? If not, hit me with your best shot. Second, any feedback on my specific selection is also welcomed.
Thanks in advance for the wisdom of the Backpacking Borg hive mind. ;-)
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 10:16:51 GMT -8
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Apr 24, 2016 10:30:43 GMT -8
backpackerpt.com/2014/03/16/weak-ankles/I HATE BOOTS. I hurt my feet wearing boots. I don't hurt them in shoes. Wearing boots caused horrible foot fungus that caused loose toenails. Trail runners, mesh, allow everything to breathe. I still end up soaking my feet in apple cider vinegar due to flare-ups of the fungus. It'll never be ideal, for my poor toes. With good shoes, I only get blisters when having a fungus issue. I roll my ankles often wearing boots. I never roll them in shoes. Do what's right for YOU. Listening to "conventional wisdom" and the rantings of boot enthusiasts did me no favors. Some people swear by boots -- if you are one of them, I wouldn't hate you for it. I'd only hate you if you force my feet into those torture chambers and throw away my trail runners. Buy some hiking shoes and give it a try. People who hike a lot toughen up their feet, get them used to the ongoing use they see. The footsoreness is telling you not that the shoe is bad but that the foot is tender. Fit is a matter of trying stuff on -- I had to stop listening to store clerks telling me what size to wear and try on shoes until I found ones that were loose enough not to rub when my feet swell, and tight enough not to be so sloppy my feet slid around inside while walking. For me that is actually YES, a couple of sizes larger than most of my street shoes. Mids aren't boots. They are shoes with a higher ankle cuff. There is no real difference in what they do for the foot.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on Apr 24, 2016 10:47:05 GMT -8
This deserves the most common answer in backpacking. It depends! Quality is form, fit and function. - Fit - Most Critical, priority #1
- Function - Match shoe/boot type to intended terrain, what is product supposed to do?
- Form - Physical characteristics. Weight, Material, Shape, Gore-Tex, No Gore-Tex, Design
At face value your Breeze 2.0 GTX seems like a good all-rounder for a starter boot. I'd stay with this or similar products and select based on best fit. That may include an aftermarket insert. Also, agree with Almostthere regarding Mids. Good Luck and Happy Trails!
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Post by hikerjer on Apr 24, 2016 17:24:57 GMT -8
As I've progressed in my hiking career, I've gone to lighter and lighter footwear. I seldom wear boots anymore preferring mids or trail shoes. Of course, it depends on terrain If I"m off trail, on a lot of talus and scree, I still prefer lightweight boots, but I'll doubt I 'll ever return to full blown heavy duty hiking boots.
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Post by aenlic on Apr 24, 2016 17:33:13 GMT -8
Thanks for input, all. Funny how words can mean different things to different folks... I see the Breeze as a 'mid' boot, compared to others like the Salomon Quest 4D and the Vasque St. Elias.
My experience with boot/shoe height and protection does vary from some views expressed. When any joint flexes, the muscles and tendons are completely in charge of controlling the flexion, unless an external support/limiter is applied. I find hiking in tall boots very limiting and uncomfortable because of the degree to which they limit my flexibility... and that does make the 'safe' approach less safe.
I end up wanting as much flexibility as I can have without risk of injury, and for hiking that becomes important (for me, at least) when you're physically tired enough that your muscles can't fight physics which hurts your body... like an ankle roll.
I do feel that a mid boot provides SOME ankle support, as long as it above or close to the top of the ankle joint. The Breeze seems like the happy medium for any trip where I could get tired; I may end up wanting a more 'agile' shoe for trails which involve a lot of 'scrambling,' but if the budget isn't there for filling in the 'more flexible' and 'more supportive' niches, it sounds like I'll be happy with the Breeze.
I really like the 'It depends' phrase as a default answer. I thought of starting a thread titled "Should EVERY question be answered with 'It Depends?', and then posting the answer... which is, of course, "It depends."
:-D
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Apr 24, 2016 20:49:18 GMT -8
I've long since figured out that it's not the boots, of whatever height, that protect my ankles. It's the trekking poles. For whatever my experience is worth (and, as others have made clear, it's not worth much to you, because I'm not you, etc.), I don't even own a pair of heavy boots. I hike in low to mid light boots, that are barely more than glorified running shoes. I do look for a slightly thicker and stiffer sole, purely because of some issues with my feet that require protection. My boys hike and backpacking in trail runners or even regular running shoes, which means they get wet feet when it's wet (but they dry quickly when it's dry). But they are are lighter than I, as well as more nimble, agile, and without the malfunctioning parts that age has brought me
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Apr 25, 2016 4:42:40 GMT -8
Ankle support? That's what my ankle is for.
Shoes just give me traction in mud and protection for my soles.
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Apr 25, 2016 6:13:50 GMT -8
Boots don't even give ankle support. Mids absolutely don't.
Read the article I linked. Pay attention to how you walk and do the exercises.
When I wore boots, I couldn't feel the trail. It caused problems. I started wearing trail runners and a lot of pain went away. I could walk without rolling my ankles, tripping a lot, and my ankles no longer had bruises. I probably had better stability to begin with than a lot of people and it's only improved over time with all the hiking we do each week. I have better balance crossing streams and rarely fall anymore. Until I started using Hokas -- there is a neuroma on my left foot, which I believe got started with the boots when I managed to get a pebble under the insole, right where the neuroma appeared years later. I was somewhat dehydrated and stupid, and kept shaking out the boot and nothing came out. Some miles later I removed the insole and there was a donut-shaped worn area on it, and this jelly-bean shaped pebble came out. Scree without gaiters -- never making that mistake again. I think it irritated the nerves and I didn't feel it as point pain, more a dispersed kind of pain because of the thick insole. SO years later, I have shooting pains and spasms, which led me to Hokas -- those trail running shoes with nearly two inches on the sole, that pad the foot so well. It was a miracle -- no more spasms all night in the foot to keep me awake. No more foot pain all day while hiking.
Except once again, I had a sole that would not allow me to feel the trail. I couldn't feel the little rock before it sent me careening down the hill, rolling down the trail, falling into the brush. Before, with regular trail runners, I could catch myself and automatically stabilize my footing. And the ankle rolling started again. Not that the rolling was such a horrible thing -- the pain was slight and transient, because I never try to stop the roll -- I roll through and keep walking, shake it off, and I have never sprained an ankle.
Thick, clunky boots are hot and heavy and stiff. I'm back in the trail runners now that the pain in the foot has abated, and no longer having issues with rolling the ankle or falling. The Hokas are pretty much shredded with the soles worn down and the mesh coming apart. But they served their purpose so I'm fine with that. I don't buy that boots protect your feet, for obvious reasons. You protect your feet by learning to walk the surfaces you're traveling on.
When those Five Fingers and their kissing cousins, the "barefoot" shoe, were all the rage, I would ask people about them -- people who stopped wearing them tended to do so because they broke a toe. Often the comfort of the shoe was pretty good even with a backpack on. I prefer an actual sole, and the nice fat toe guard, myself. Just not a complete straightjacket that restricts the foot in any way.
Which isn't to say no one should wear boots, or everyone should wear trail runners. The long term consequences for your choices depend on you and your feet. If you are listening to your body's cues, and following them, you'll be better off. If I went backpacking once every other year like some people I know, it would not have mattered -- I probably could get away with boots and may still be wearing them. But making a regular habit of hiking trails full of rocks and roots is a different matter. I should have paid more attention to the misery and less to "conventional wisdom."
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 18:51:10 GMT -8
I guess I'm still a bit old school. I wear boots, used to wear gortex lined, but not too long a go switched back to a full leather boot with no gtx liner. I love the things, probably because I live in boots (safety toe work boots) all day every day, so the feel is familiar. The hikers are lighter than the work boots, so I really don't worry about the 'weight penalty'. The area I hike in is east coast, just about every trail condition one could encounter except maybe desert travel. It can be very very wet at times, long stretches of black swill on some of the old RR grades converted to trails around here. With proper treatment I haven't had any real wet feet problems unless I dunk 'em in a stream crossing. Oddly enough, they dry faster than the gtx lined ones, but of course take a lot longer than a fabric boot/shoe. They are a bit warm in summer, but I'm used to changing my socks at mid day every day, so I don't worry about that either.
I tried lighter weight footwear, but kept going back the familiar. Just liked the foot protection I was used to. You'll go through several options until you find what works for you. Fit is paramount. Ignore what's 'fashionable' and use what's best for you.
You'll find each manufacturer has their own idea of the best fit. For me, if its made in Italy, it fits my foot. Anything else and I have problems. Keep a mental note of what fits you best and where was made, it may help narrow down the choices for you.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on May 7, 2016 21:27:13 GMT -8
You'll go through several options until you find what works for you. This is true. And if you find something that really does work for you like a dream, run back to the store and buy a couple more pairs of them. Because by the time you wear yours out, they'll have discontinued that boot/shoe and you'll be back to the beginning.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on May 8, 2016 8:19:31 GMT -8
Because by the time you wear yours out, they'll have discontinued that boot/shoe and you'll be back to the beginning. She speaks the truth!
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on May 8, 2016 9:16:34 GMT -8
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on May 8, 2016 10:01:13 GMT -8
And then, too, your three pairs of shoes you bought in advance anticipating they are eventually to be discontinued... may not work out after all. Since feet change, bunions grow, other things happen to feet that you don't expect.... Which would be why I have several pairs of new shoes I can't wear.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on May 8, 2016 20:37:58 GMT -8
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