ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 20, 2023 14:46:26 GMT -8
Allegedly the submersible's view portal is only designed for 4,300 feet of pressure? But they’re pushing it to 13,000 feet. Plus multiple allegations of ignoring safety concerns? I always liked the word implosion. At least it would be a very quick end for the passengers.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jun 20, 2023 15:32:58 GMT -8
I’m hoping that’s not the case. Though given the sort of safety features that’s usually in such submersibles, at least in the research ones I’m familiar with at SIO, I'm concerned. There’s a provision for total power failure by having the solid ballast releasable via a mechanical mechanism so return to the surface can occur from sheer vessel buoyancy, beacons and strobes for once surfaced and a very loud pinger for underwater distress and location all independent of vessel main power. That total silence is bad. David Pogue of CBS News (NY Times previously ?) is said to have an article on his experience with the company. He’s one of their tech writers so might be an insightful read. And he’s offered views in the current incident. www.cbsnews.com/news/what-happened-to-missing-titanic-submarine-david-pogue-oceangate-possible-scenarios/
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Travis
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Post by Travis on Jun 20, 2023 17:29:44 GMT -8
I would very much like to see those folks rescued alive and well, but I don't see much grounds for hope in any of the links provided or in the news accounts I've read. The vessel appears to be one-of-a-kind with many improvisations and untested specifications. However many safety features are built into it, there appear to be several risks with little recourse to safety.
Much can be learned from risky endeavors, but I'm not sure that "tourism," whatever that means in the current crisis, is worth the gamble. But that gamble is the decision those men chose to take. Maybe that in itself will provide the lesson to be learned.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jun 20, 2023 17:57:10 GMT -8
At depth the hydrostatic pressure would be three tons per square inch. The safety margin is very small. It’s why unmanned vessels (and tbh, manned vessels as well) try and have as much “wet” gear as possible with anything else in oil just to eliminate as much pressure vulnerable open volume as possible.
One thing that I felt was unfair is the seeming criticism of using iron drain pipe as ballast. For an expendable item such ax ballast cheap and common are good things: both of which cast iron drain pipe fit to a t. For space efficiency steel plates can be nice but if you're discarding them each dive they could be more expensive than iron scrap.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 20, 2023 18:12:35 GMT -8
Much can be learned from risky endeavors, but I'm not sure that "tourism," whatever that means in the current crisis, is worth the gamble. But that gamble is the decision those men chose to take. Maybe that in itself will provide the lesson to be learned. The problem is if those "tourists" were told it was basically safe when there were design flaws the company was aware of. The company spent a lot on building the submersible and didn't want to lose paying customers. That kind of takes away their decision.
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Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Jun 20, 2023 18:33:25 GMT -8
The problem is if those "tourists" were told it was basically safe when there were design flaws the company was aware of. The company spent a lot on building the submersible and didn't want to lose paying customers. That kind of takes away their decision. ...and in order to get the price down to $200K+, they had to neglect investing in tools, assets, and technology for search, rescue, and recovery. The cost for that is being paid for by US taxpayers, via the substantive deployment of military assets. Privatized profits, socialized risk.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jun 20, 2023 18:41:41 GMT -8
Search and rescue on the high seas is covered under international agreements. Now risking American military members just to assuage an airliner crash victims survivors desire for body recovery from an incredibly hazardous location I’ve never supported. Life saving is an entirely different thing. Once that’s impossible? Pay for a private effort. They are accessing private companies for assistance: WSJ “The organization said OceanGate had sought assistance from Magellan, a deep-sea mapping and investigation company based in the U.K., to use its deep-sea remotely operated vehicle to help find the submersible. Magellan’s vehicle has the capacity to go far deeper than the vehicles currently on site, Explorers Club said, but the U.S. hadn’t yet issued permits for the team to participate.” apple.news/Ao-i0oQtuSMqd4LjDiWd2YQ
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Travis
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Post by Travis on Jun 20, 2023 19:25:43 GMT -8
Much can be learned from risky endeavors, but I'm not sure that "tourism," whatever that means in the current crisis, is worth the gamble. But that gamble is the decision those men chose to take. Maybe that in itself will provide the lesson to be learned. The problem is if those "tourists" were told it was basically safe when there were design flaws the company was aware of. The company spent a lot on building the submersible and didn't want to lose paying customers. That kind of takes away their decision. I don't believe that for one second. Two passengers are billionaires, one is a billionaire's son, and another is a veteran of 35 other trips to the Titantic wreckage. The fifth person is the pilot, CEO and founder of the company owning the submersible. Those five are the only people on the submersible.
It makes no sense to me that those folks cannot afford to do their own research to discover "possible" flaws in the planned trip. And if the CEO didn't know, whose fault is that?
I agree that people with those resources can afford to pay for their own rescue. But the entire idea that they had no way of knowing the risks they were taking makes no sense at all to me. How many gullible billionaires does it take? That's like saying people who choose to go over Niagara Falls in a barrel can't be blamed for taking the risk.
Obviously this is a more sophisticated venture than the barrels. But some states require reimbursement when hikers make foolish decisions and then call for SAR. I hope all these folks survive. I really do. And if they do, I hope they do the honorable thing and reimburse the public purse that is now going to their rescue.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jun 20, 2023 19:27:02 GMT -8
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jun 21, 2023 2:38:59 GMT -8
Much can be learned from risky endeavors, but I'm not sure that "tourism," whatever that means in the current crisis, is worth the gamble. But that gamble is the decision those men chose to take. Maybe that in itself will provide the lesson to be learned. Climbing Everest is now tourism as well, complete with ladders and ropes set by sherpas, and all of your gear transported and set up by the same.
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marmotstew
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Post by marmotstew on Jun 21, 2023 5:05:11 GMT -8
So, what I don’t understand is why they have searched almost 8000 square miles? Don’t they just drop it off a boat right near the Titanic and drop down? Or do they think they drifted off? Weird.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jun 21, 2023 6:16:04 GMT -8
So, what I don’t understand is why they have searched almost 8000 square miles? Don’t they just drop it off a boat right near the Titanic and drop down? Or do they think they drifted off? Weird. Yes, there are powerful underwater currents, as well as the ones near the surface. If it's powerless, or they're conserving power, it's at the mercy of the currents. Think rip tide, but orders of magnitude larger.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 21, 2023 7:49:40 GMT -8
There are now reports of "noise" heard in the vicinity. They don't know the source but that is better than nothing heard. There are resources heading to the area that could reach down there but maybe more in a recovery timeframe than rescue. I read that the way they release the ballast of lead pipes is that everyone gets to one side and the pipes roll off their platform underneath. If they had a full systems failure on the way down that would explain the loss of communications and they may not have been able to do the ballast maneuver. They may be sitting on the bottom somewhere.
I wonder if anyone on board knows Morse code (CW) or if they at least have a code chart. At least someone should know SOS:
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walkswithblackflies
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Post by walkswithblackflies on Jun 21, 2023 11:53:27 GMT -8
It makes no sense to me that those folks cannot afford to do their own research to discover "possible" flaws in the planned trip. And if the CEO didn't know, whose fault is that? On CNN dot com: Josh Gates, the host of a variety of TV adventure shows, tweeted Wednesday, "To those asking, Titan did not perform well on my dive.
"Ultimately, I walked away from a huge opportunity to film Titanic due to my safety concerns w/ the @oceangate platform," he added. "There's more to the history and design of Titan that has not been made public -- much of it concerning."
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balzaccom
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Post by balzaccom on Jun 21, 2023 12:19:01 GMT -8
I realize this isn't news, but if you're going have problems on the high seas, do it as five multimillionaires on a tourist cruise.
Don't do it as 350 poverty stricken refugees seeking shelter
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