TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 17, 2021 5:54:10 GMT -8
Helpful thread. I came into some Xmas money and looking to make one big upgrade this year. I'm sick and tired of sleeping cold, not trusting my bag. Currently a Marmot Sawtooth L (650, 15 degrees). Looking for something that will keep me warm and toasty March - November in Colorado. I move up in altitude as it warms through the summer, so I feel like I'm always sleeping in shoulder season, and I'm a COLD sleeper who likes to be comfortable. 6'3", side sleeper. I'm about to pull the trigger on a FF Lark, Long. For similar reasons, sounds like, that trinity is looking at the Swallow. Anyone want to try to talk me out of it?
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 17, 2021 6:30:20 GMT -8
I'm about to pull the trigger on a FF Lark, Long. For similar reasons, sounds like, that trinity is looking at the Swallow. Anyone want to try to talk me out of it? You're a pretty tall guy, and from your photos look fairly broad in the chest. Are you sure the Lark's 60" shoulder girth is going to work for you? It would for me, but I'm 5'10", 39” chest, 148lbs. I think FF makes nice bags, but I've always felt Western Mountaineering were a bit "loftier." Yes, highly subjective and technical I know, lol! I also don't like that FF makes you rely on their temp ratings/fill weights rather than give their bags loft specs. Very odd. Loft is a known quantity based on how the bag is designed/sewn/filled. I own a WM Versalite for my fall bag. It's essentially the same as the Lark, but 2" wider in the shoulders. That extra 2" makes a difference for broader chested folks. In the Long size, which you'd need, it has a 63" shoulder girth, so 3" larger than the Lark. If you order from Hermits Hut, you can get it with overfill (3 oz IIRC) for free. That would give the Long Versalite 25oz's of down. I think we've owned something like 7 WM bags going back 30 years, all have been ordered with overfill. My wife likes more shoulder room than me, and uses an Alpinlite (64" shoulder girth). I have the Versalite (62") as I've said, but my primary bag is the Ultralite (59" @ shoulder). I prefer snug mummies. Just some thoughts...
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 17, 2021 7:02:26 GMT -8
Super helpful thoughts. Let me process this!
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
|
Post by TrailElder on Jan 17, 2021 8:06:16 GMT -8
You're a pretty tall guy, and from your photos look fairly broad in the chest. Are you sure the Lark's 60" shoulder girth is going to work for you? It would for me, but I'm 5'10", 41" chest, 148lbs. I think FF makes nice bags, but I've always felt Western Mountaineering were a bit "loftier." Yes, highly subjective and technical I know, lol! I also don't like that FF makes you rely on their temp ratings/fill weights rather than give their bags loft specs. Very odd. Loft is a known quantity based on how the bag is designed/sewn/filled. I own a WM Versalite for my fall bag. It's essentially the same as the Lark, but 2" wider in the shoulders. That extra 2" makes a difference for broader chested folks. In the Long size, which you'd need, it has a 63" shoulder girth, so 3" larger than the Lark. If you order from Hermits Hut, you can get it with overfill (3 oz IIRC) for free. That would give the Long Versalite 25oz's of down. I think we've owned something like 7 WM bags going back 30 years, all have been ordered with overfill. My wife likes more shoulder room than me, and uses an Alpinlite (64" shoulder girth). I have the Versalite (62") as I've said, but my primary bag is the Ultralite (59" @ shoulder). I prefer snug mummies. You put your finger on some questions I had. Shoulder width. I'm a 42" chest, 185 lbs. (so pretty skinny, but thanks for the broad shoulders compliment). My Marmot is 62" and I have been suspecting that it's too wide for maximum warmth. And I don't need all that space, so I've been thinking I'd like to try reducing that girth. I'm not confident I'll like 60", though. Maybe I ought to go into REI and find a 60" bag to try...but I've been hesitating doing that kind of thing with COVID.... Loft and fill. Tell me more about your thoughts on both. Seems like a big difference between the two bags is 850 v. 950. Also, I like the sounds of the shell fabric on the Lark. Sounds like it has some good water and wind resistance. Thoughts about comparison?
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 17, 2021 8:33:56 GMT -8
Western is a very conservative Co. and understates everything they do, from temp to loft. If you compare a WM bag side by side with a FF bag it becomes clear who overstates and who understates. The truth is WM’s down lofts over 900ci’s per oz. From WM’s FAQ’s: www.westernmountaineering.com/faqs/Western Mountaineering is specialized enough that we can ask for our suppliers to give us the best down they can get. This creates an average yield that is almost always above 900 fill power. We state 850+ on our products because even though the down tests out at 900 or over, the ‘real’ loft power is different. Once the down is inside a bag or jacket baffle it is compressed slightly by the fabric. Loft is also affected by real world humidity conditions that are not present during loft testing.Indeed, I’d try a 60” girth bag before buying.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 17, 2021 8:54:07 GMT -8
That's a great FAQ page, and good background from you. I like the fact, too, that I can go into my local mountaineering shop and check it out. I'm going to do that!
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 17, 2021 9:14:10 GMT -8
BTW, not sure how I came up with my chest measurement as 41”! It’s barely 39”... changed the post.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 17, 2021 9:19:22 GMT -8
One can dream.
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 17, 2021 9:30:02 GMT -8
indeed. Though I’ve recently introduced push-ups to my workout, and will be adding pull-ups soon. I’ll be curious to see where I’m at a year from now.
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 17, 2021 9:31:46 GMT -8
Back to sleeping bags, I’m of the opinion that WM’s microfiber is the finest all-around shell fabric there is. There’s a minor weight penalty, but I’m inclined to think it’s worth it.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
|
Post by TrailElder on Jan 17, 2021 10:00:03 GMT -8
There’s a minor weight penalty, but I’m inclined to think it’s worth it. Fer sure, if you're looking for warmth and dependability. The weight of that bag is astounding for a warm bag. Thanks for that endorsement. Be careful with the push-ups, etc! I overdid it and ended up with frozen shoulder. And I just don't build muscle size much, anyway. I've retreated to yoga the past 5 years and am happy with the strength and flexibility results.
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 17, 2021 10:47:30 GMT -8
Be careful with the push-ups, etc! I overdid it and ended up with frozen shoulder. And I just don't build muscle size much, anyway. I've retreated to yoga the past 5 years and am happy with the strength and flexibility results I hear you. Most people don't understand rest is just as important as the workout itself. I do a high intensity workout, but only twice a week. I do yoga, and a stout cardio workout (stair stepper), but I despise weight training. However, at our age (I believe we're the same age - me 60 in June) it's important to have some strength training, so without getting into actual weights, yoga, cardio/legs, pushups and pullups is a complete package... but accompanied by plenty of rest. Regardless, diet is king, exercise is queen. You can't overcome a poor diet with too much exercise (this is where folks get into trouble). A non-acidic (low inflammation) diet goes a long way in recovery between workouts...
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Post by johntpenca on Jan 17, 2021 11:17:39 GMT -8
Any bag with a microfiber (MF) shell is fairly water resistant against things like condensation.
Personally, I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to the higher fill power down. On the one hand it provides a lighter bag. On the other, I question how much it degrades over time and if it compromises heat retention. Don't know.
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 17, 2021 11:32:04 GMT -8
John, if I'm not mistaken you have the MF Apache? For me that's about the ideal 1-bag, bag. 6" Loft, 15*F.
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Post by johntpenca on Jan 17, 2021 11:58:21 GMT -8
Yes Brad, with 2 oz. overfill. It is a great all around bag. Just a little tight for me as I sleep like a rotisserie chicken, turning all night long. I'm relatively lean (5'-9", 150 lbs.), so it fits great if all I did was sleep on my back. Haven't replaced it yet though as it does it's job well and make the bag move with me rather than try to turn inside it.
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