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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 19, 2021 17:41:53 GMT -8
I frostbit my feet on a weeklong winter trip in 1976. Temps were well below zero, and I didn’t regain full feeling in my feet for several days after my return home. Ever since then my feet get cold, and anytime I think I’ll be sleeping in the teens or lower I pack my down booties.
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 21, 2021 5:22:12 GMT -8
Summit Etherlight XT Insulated I did a little snooping about this pad. It has quite a low R value (R3.8) given its weight (19.8oz's) and cost. I have several inflatables, including a Neoair XLite (Size Reg - R4.2 / 12oz) and Neoair XTherm (Size Lg - R6.9 / 19.9oz). I get a little cool in my bag with the R4.2 XLite if temps are around freezing or a bit beow (it has a higher R value than your Sea to Summit pad). Not so with the R6.9 XTherm. I also have a 1/8" Evazote pad I'll pack along if temps are going to get real "sporty." Honestly, I think your pad is probably a bigger culprit than you realize. My advice would echo Trinity's... for the same weight as your current Sea To Summit you could be packing a size Large Xtherm with an 80% higher R value... trying this would save you the cost of a new bag you may not need. Regardless, given you're a cold sleeper, that's the pad I'd be packing.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
I'm a Blue Liner, following blue lines on the map wherever they may lead. Tenkara rod in hand!
Posts: 487
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 21, 2021 7:11:44 GMT -8
Honestly, I think your pad is probably a bigger culprit than you realize. My advice would echo Trinity's... for the same weight as your current Sea To Summit you could be packing a size Large Xtherm with an 80% higher R value... trying this would save you the cost of a new bag you may not need. Regardless, given you're a cold sleeper, that's the pad I'd be packing. Okay, okay! I'll dig into this. It wouldn't hurt to have a quiver of pads, and I lend them out to family as well. Thanks for taking the time to do the analysis. I feel like I loose a lot of heat from the top of my bag as well. But maybe starting with the pad is a good next step. Certainly more affordable!
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 21, 2021 8:02:52 GMT -8
When I’m heading for a snow camp I’ll take a closed cell foam pad to go under my Thermarest pro lite. The challenge is no matter how good the bag what’s under you is a few fabric layers sandwiching some crushed down. And direct contact heat transfer is far larger than radiative.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
I'm a Blue Liner, following blue lines on the map wherever they may lead. Tenkara rod in hand!
Posts: 487
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 21, 2021 8:25:39 GMT -8
Just re-read some reviews on the XTherm, including Philip Werner's, who does such a nice job. I'm convinced it's worth a shot. I like that they redesigned the valve last year, which seemed to be an issue (better, but still not perfect, sounds like.) sectionhiker.com/therm-a-rest-xtherm-sleeping-pad-w-winglock-valve-review/I'm predicting the pad won't be as comfortable as my STS, which I love, but if it keeps me warmer it's worth the trade off in colder temps. The STS is quiet, snug, and has good pillow integration, which I use. But I have jerry-rigged pillow systems with velcro on other pads quite successfully. I've ordered one up from REI. Their one-year return deal makes it no risk -- unlike a top-of-the-line bag! My local REI is literally the closest store of *any* kind to my house, about 10 mins. I can have in-store delivery, parking-lot pickup in a 30 min. turnaround. I may still get a new bag, so I might be back at you with this. But I was beginning to think that the Versalite might be overkill for me. I think this panel got to the right next step. Can't wait to get out and test it. Thanks again for all of your thinking and advice on this. I'll keep you posted.
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Post by johntpenca on Jan 21, 2021 12:08:15 GMT -8
I feel like I loose a lot of heat from the top of my bag as well. Brad is right. Ground insulation is a big part of sleeping warm.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
I'm a Blue Liner, following blue lines on the map wherever they may lead. Tenkara rod in hand!
Posts: 487
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Post by TrailElder on Feb 13, 2021 10:55:15 GMT -8
Whoop! Got my new pad! Looking forward to testing it, but I think I'll wait for it to warm up just a bit.... -10 nights going on right now! It's a bit crinkly, as often reported, but when I put my bag and pillow on, it doesn't seem bad at all. I appreciate all who weighed in and will keep you posted!
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
I'm a Blue Liner, following blue lines on the map wherever they may lead. Tenkara rod in hand!
Posts: 487
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Post by TrailElder on Feb 13, 2021 11:44:16 GMT -8
Just weighed the pad alongside my current favorite.
Thermarest XTherm: 24 oz. with stuff sack + 2 oz pump sack = 26 oz. (R 6.9) STS EtherLightXT: 22 oz. with integrated stuff and pump sack (R 3.2)
(These are both longs.)
I will use the pump sack, which I like, for a water-proof clothing sack, replacing another sack I use. So I'm considering this a 2 oz. increase for more than twice the R value.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
I'm a Blue Liner, following blue lines on the map wherever they may lead. Tenkara rod in hand!
Posts: 487
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Post by TrailElder on Feb 13, 2021 11:45:20 GMT -8
I've also tested the newly designed valve, including reduction while laying on the mat. Works very smoothly.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
I'm a Blue Liner, following blue lines on the map wherever they may lead. Tenkara rod in hand!
Posts: 487
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Post by TrailElder on Apr 30, 2021 12:32:34 GMT -8
Tested my new XTherm last weekend for two nights in sub-30s. Whole new world! I could tell right away that I was warmer from the ground up and slept better than I have in quite some time. My bag could have been a bit warmer -- I still ended up putting on a down jacket in the night -- but I think I'll ride it out for a while. Those nights were as low as I like to go if I have a choice. Before this pad, I would have put on the jacket, fired up at least one body warmer, and still been cold.
Thanks again for the advice of this group. I'm now going out more confident I can stay at least functionally warm in whatever I'll encounter. It also tempts me to think about trying a quilt next....
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Post by trinity on May 1, 2021 9:34:59 GMT -8
Thanks for reporting back, TrailElder , and glad you were so happy with the pad. It also tempts me to think about trying a quilt next.... I keep going back and forth between getting a 30 degree bag or a 20 degree quilt. If I wind up with a quilt, it will almost certainly be this one: Katabatic Flex
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Post by bradmacmt on May 1, 2021 9:39:01 GMT -8
Tested my new XTherm last weekend for two nights in sub-30s. Whole new world! Great news!
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
I'm a Blue Liner, following blue lines on the map wherever they may lead. Tenkara rod in hand!
Posts: 487
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Post by TrailElder on May 1, 2021 14:11:12 GMT -8
If I wind up with a quilt, it will almost certainly be this one: Katabatic FlexThat looks like it could be right up my alley as well. Thanks. Keep me posted!
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Post by bradmacmt on May 1, 2021 15:24:31 GMT -8
I recently ended up buying a Western Mountaineering Summerlite... got it on a 25% off sale for $319. Shaved over 12 oz's off my overfilled WM Ultralite. It's a very specific bag for a narrow temp range, but I'm looking forward to using it this summer.
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