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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 18, 2021 0:20:19 GMT -8
I like a little more warmth since I won’t use my shelter unless it’s raining or the mosquito hordes are rampaging so the Antelope makes me happy. And a “5 degree bag” in the 60 degree night August Yosemite Valley is no problem either: cozily asleep in my shelter with the bag maybe draped over only my knees. I’ve made winter bags (Trailwise Chevron) work in the same conditions the same way: anything can be made inefficient. It’s their coldest temp protection that’s the more steadfast barrier. Also watch the shell fabric impact on weight and pack ability. The Antelope MF is a much smaller (M sack not L) and 6 ounces lighter package to the Antelope GWS. www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/microfiber-series/antelope-mf/www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/gore-windstopper-series/antelope-gws/When the heat loss wind protection is needed the GWS is great but when the bug conditions or whatever mean you know you’ll be inside a shelter the MF gets my vote. I can’t speak to FF sleeping bags as I’ve only got one of their vests; but I’ve had it for years and love it, warm when I want it to be and scary light. And terrific build quality. last I’d say “trying a sleeping bag on” does make sense, at least when fully zipped up they are, in effect, clothing.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 18, 2021 7:10:59 GMT -8
anything can be made inefficient. It’s their coldest temp protection that’s the more steadfast barrier. This is what I'm realizing. I want the confidence I can sleep anywhere, anytime, any conditions I might reasonably encounter. I know if I'm confident I *won't* need the bag, I have other options, or I can make a warm bag cooler. But from March - Nov the past few seasons I've slept cold *most* nights, fussing with body warmers, wearing extra layers including a high-quality down hoody, etc. I'm done. These look like amazing bags. As a committed tent sleeper, seems like it makes sense to go with their warmest UL one? (vs. MF or GWS) I'm using TarpTent's new Bowfin 1 person. It's very adaptable to conditions -- free standing with the fly able to be partial or removed for circulation and visibility, but protection from the buzzards. www.tarptent.com/product/bowfin-1s/
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Post by trinity on Jan 18, 2021 8:12:58 GMT -8
TrailElder , for what you are describing, I think the Versalite would be a great bag. Bear in mind that, though WM gives this bag a rating only 5 degrees better than your Sawtooth, it will in fact be much warmer than these numbers indicate. I've slept comfortably down to 6 degrees in my Versalite. If you are willing to add the extra weight, buy from Hermit's Hut with the overstuff, and you will never have to worry about sleeping cold again.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 18, 2021 8:33:29 GMT -8
If you are willing to add the extra weight, buy from Hermit's Hut with the overstuff, and you will never have to worry about sleeping cold again. (This may be a dual post -- I don't think the first one worked) That's where I'm at right now -- trying to decide on overstuff. I rarely encounter nights below high 20s F. (But if I had a bag I trusted, maybe I'd push that occasionally!) 3 oz is nothing to me for sleep comfort. Right now I am sleeping in layers, which often includes a down puffy, and also body warmers.... I could probably gain back the weight with clothes reduction. Yours is overstuffed? Or no?
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 18, 2021 8:34:49 GMT -8
BTW, trinity, I started reading Tinker Creek last night. I've already highlighted a couple passages -- which I rarely do. THANKS.
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Post by trinity on Jan 18, 2021 8:47:23 GMT -8
Yours is overstuffed? Or no? No, mine is just a standard Versalite. I consider it overkill for most of my backpacking trips, which is why I have been considering another bag. Night time lows around freezing is pretty typical for my trips. But I do sleep pretty warm. Really glad you're enjoying the book. I am continually blown away by her writing.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 18, 2021 9:03:02 GMT -8
But I do sleep pretty warm. So, I won't hold you to it, but given what you know, and if you were me, you would go ahead and overstuff?
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Post by trinity on Jan 18, 2021 10:03:50 GMT -8
I wouldn't, but I can be something of a gram weenie. Of course, you live in Colorado and I live in Texas, so warmth will be much more of an issue for you, whereas for me weight is often the bigger issue, since I often have to make long water carries. Given what I understand your build to be (tall, broad at the shoulders), I'd get either the long Versalite or the FF Raven (with which I have no experience). Either of these bags should be reliably comfortable down to their rating of 10 degrees, without any overstuff.
Since it sounds like you are unable to get warm, even though you are rarely in temps below the upper 20s, I am wondering what kind of sleeping pad you are using?
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Post by johntpenca on Jan 18, 2021 11:41:49 GMT -8
I'd get the overfill. A minor weight penalty and I'm not a gram weenie. To me it is mainly because high fill power down is more fragile and the overfill helps if the down loses loft. Got no facts to back that up, just my thinking. Maybe call and ask the mfg what the benefits are.
ETA: Also, I hate wearing a puffy while sleeping. Too constricting for me and am concerned about body moisture getting in the puffy and not dissipating when inside the bag.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 18, 2021 13:20:35 GMT -8
Also, I hate wearing a puffy while sleeping. Too constricting for me and am concerned about body moisture getting in the puffy and not dissipating when inside the bag. Right??? Believe me, I've tried it all. Sometimes the puffy is the only thing that works for me.
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Post by johntpenca on Jan 18, 2021 13:34:05 GMT -8
Sometimes the puffy is the only thing that works for me. If you are cold and putting on the puffy keeps you comfortable, absolutely go for it. Many people consider a puffy as part of their sleep system to keep overall pack weight down. Nothing wrong with it, just not my thing.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 18, 2021 13:40:59 GMT -8
Since it sounds like you are unable to get warm, even though you are rarely in temps below the upper 20s, I am wondering what kind of sleeping pad you are using? Last season, I moved from a Big Agnes Insulated Q-Core SLX to a Sea to Summit Etherlight XT Insulated. I really like the pad; very comfortable. I like both of them, actually, but the STS is warmer. I could go even warmer, of course, but I really start to get into weight.
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TrailElder
Trail Wise!
Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed
Posts: 507
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Post by TrailElder on Jan 18, 2021 13:46:24 GMT -8
If you are cold and putting on the puffy keeps you comfortable, absolutely go for it. Yes, I just put it on once I get cold, if I do. I don't start with it, normally. I bring the coat for the late/early hours in camp if it's cold for me (which for me is often, as you can tell!). I've found that getting up and getting out of my tent in the night to pee, look at the stars, and put on my coat can buy my some sleep. I really warm up that way! I also will blow some warm air into my pad.
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Post by trinity on Jan 18, 2021 14:24:25 GMT -8
TrailElder , you already have a lot of money invested in pads, but you might consider a Neoair X-therm. Or you could purchase a closed cell mat and add it to one of your air pads. I think these pads you use (with R-values of about 3.2) are pushing it for the upper 20s. No amount of down in your bag will compensate for an inadequate pad.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 18, 2021 14:39:25 GMT -8
On a related note how’s your presleep nutrition and hydration habits? Readily available blood sugar is available fuel for body core heating and any reduction in hydration and the blood circulation to extremities is reduced inhibiting heat transfer from your core to your more vulnerable hands and feet.
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