|
Post by cweston on Nov 20, 2020 7:27:01 GMT -8
I think it's to be expected. First of all, COVID-19 is like nothing we've seen before. Initially there were the outrageous estimates of millions dropping dead that proved to be wrong, then it was reasonable to believe it wasn't going to be as bad as it's turning out to be. Well, FWIW, approx. 1.35 million people have died from Covid. So, I don't know; "millions" is not so terribly outrageous. Obviously, no one ever knows exactly how a pandemic is going to play out. And, like most people, I'm not a virologist, epidemiologist, etc. So I figure the best bet is to follow the advice of those that are.
|
|
balzaccom
Trail Wise!
Waiting for spring...
Posts: 4,504
|
Post by balzaccom on Nov 20, 2020 8:40:31 GMT -8
My daughter lives in Switzerland and sent me this video. Apparently we're not the only country that hasn't handled this well... /?vh=e&d=w
|
|
toejam
Trail Wise!
Hiking to raise awareness
Posts: 1,795
|
Post by toejam on Nov 20, 2020 11:31:05 GMT -8
Well, FWIW, approx. 1.35 million people have died from Covid. So, I don't know; "millions" is not so terribly outrageous. Obviously, no one ever knows exactly how a pandemic is going to play out. And, like most people, I'm not a virologist, epidemiologist, etc. So I figure the best bet is to follow the advice of those that are. Agreed. However, we were told millions of Americans would die in March; the virus didn't work that way so skepticism was justified. You only have to hear Dr. Fauci speak a few times to realize he loves to rain on everybody's parade and isn't likely to give any realistic, measured advice [text removed as it repeats a false claim about Dr. Fauci—Mods]. We were also told in March there would be a fall/winter resurgence. Then when it happened people like to says it's because Trump didn't insist everybody wears a mask at all times. So we hear lots of different things - science and virologists don't speak with one voice. But clearly this is becoming a worst-case scenario I never envisioned. The rural people I know in Missouri took basically no precautions since the beginning and had very few cases. But the economy still suffered and there's all this pressure for more authoritarian control. There's no excuse for treating medical people trying to help you badly. But to a lot of people the virus has been nothing but a weapon aimed at them to take away their money, freedom, and religion. It's no wonder people are pissed.
|
|
|
Post by cweston on Nov 20, 2020 11:40:21 GMT -8
Yikes.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 20, 2020 11:54:22 GMT -8
Actually we were told fifteen people would get sick and then it would all go away in March. It is what it is. And that didn’t happen, so, yes, you bet I’m pissed.
|
|
|
Post by johntpenca on Nov 20, 2020 11:58:35 GMT -8
My daughter lives in Switzerland OT: She is a lucky girl. I've been to Switzerland twice. Beautiful country and centrally located to visit other European countries. Back On Topic: Care to expounded on what you are referring to?
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,667
|
Post by rebeccad on Nov 20, 2020 12:42:22 GMT -8
It may be difficult to keep this thread out of TPA. I have removed one untrue statement, and will continue to do so. The fact is, the politicization of masking and other precautions has contributed to the situation we are in currently. Let’s try to avoid adding to that.
|
|
|
Post by cweston on Nov 20, 2020 12:49:18 GMT -8
Care to expounded on what you are referring to? Given that this is not TPA, no, I don't think that's possible. Let's just say I think there are some assertions unsupported by the facts in there.
|
|
|
Post by johntpenca on Nov 20, 2020 12:54:41 GMT -8
Given that this is not TPA, no, I don't think that's possible. Let's just say I think there are some assertions unsupported by the facts in there. Gotcha. Yes, hard to avoid political and personal comment on this subject.
|
|
jazzmom
Trail Wise!
a.k.a. TigerFan
Posts: 3,059
|
Post by jazzmom on Nov 21, 2020 14:50:11 GMT -8
So, setting aside the truths and untruths about COVID because I don't think those details are relevant in explaining or justifying the level and intensity of hate.
I think when really horrible things happen that feels beyond our control, there's collective anger, and that collective anger demands someone to blame. And that anger is never logical or reasonable. I think it's just a natural human reaction to things they feel they don't have control over. When 9/11 happened, that anger ended up directed at Middle-Easterners, regardless of whether they were American, or had no connection whatsoever to the countries involved. 20 years later, we still live with the repercussions. Interestingly enough, at the time, we all patted ourselves on the back about having come together as a nation. We chose to be completely blind to what it was doing to our middle-eastern neighbors.
With COVID, I think that collective anger is very clearly divided between those who blame Trump Republicans and those who blame Democrats. The logic doesn't even have to make sense or be defendable. "People are pissed" and, who you're pissed at depends on your political leanings. I understand that the Dems aren't specifically blamed for the pandemic but they're definitely being blamed for using it to "ruin" the country; for where we all find ourselves today. And each side feels equally justified.
I don't know if there's a way to live through something like this and be able to contain that anger or direct it to something less destructive. IMO, that's something our leaders should try to do, and it's not a Republican/Democrat thing; we've had both Republican and Democrat Presidents in the past do their best to unify the country.
|
|
driftwoody
Trail Wise!
Take the path closer to the edge, especially if less traveled
Posts: 14,984
|
Post by driftwoody on Nov 21, 2020 16:14:43 GMT -8
Truth is one thing. Facts are another. For America to unite in common cause to defeat this deadly pandemic requires an agreed upon set of facts.
That much I believe is true.
Right now we are in a place where people deny the facts with their dying breath, and anger is directed at those trying to save them.
|
|
texasbb
Trail Wise!
Hates chicken
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by texasbb on Nov 21, 2020 17:50:19 GMT -8
[text removed as it repeats a false claim about Dr. Fauci—Mods] I assume this was removed because it reveals a truth inconvenient to the moderators' preferred narrative. If I'm wrong about this, I encourage the moderators to show me why. Of course, to do that they'll have to let me see toejam 's statement. Censorship is ugly.
|
|
|
Post by cweston on Nov 21, 2020 18:06:32 GMT -8
texasbb , toejam 's post included a debunked claim about Fauci. There have been several claims of this variety about Fauci that have gone viral in right-wing circles, and they've all been debunked by fact-checking sites like Snopes, et al. I think you owe the mods an apology--they deleted a false claim, as is (I believe) the policy of the forum site host. And it was a claim that especially should not have been made in this thread, which is not a TPA thread.
|
|
texasbb
Trail Wise!
Hates chicken
Posts: 1,223
|
Post by texasbb on Nov 21, 2020 18:50:28 GMT -8
It's interesting that you counter my post by letting me see what had been censored, which is exactly what I said I needed to figure out who was right.
I will not apologize for speaking out against censorship. It never accomplishes the purpose of spreading truth. It will only amplify division and distrust. "No, and here's why" is more effective, more respectful of the poster and the readers, and more likely to bring people of differing opinions together.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,667
|
Post by rebeccad on Nov 21, 2020 19:33:44 GMT -8
texasbb, as Mods we have an obligation under the terms of Freeforums.net to take down inaccurate statements about COVID. I chose to make a note that I had deleted the false claims, which I guess triggered your fear of random censorship, or partisan censorship. Before removing any statement or post, we do as thorough as fact-check as possible. I am fully aware that my own view might lead me to miss an erroneous statement that supports my beliefs—confirmation bias is real, even when you know it’s always a possibility—but we do our best to be fair. If you believe that a post contains lies or misleading information and we have not addressed it, please feel free to report it and we will subject it to the standard fact checks. Is it censorship to forbid someone to shout “fire” in a crowded theater? CWeston’s post does raise an interesting dilemma... of course, he prefaces it by saying it’s a debunked claim, rather than repeating it as truth, which is a different thing, but still actually kind of bothers me, because of how the human mind works: we tend to remember the statement, not the fact that it was false, even when we are told it is. That is, in fact, why we delete false statements rather than simply tagging them.
|
|