balzaccom
Trail Wise!
Waiting for spring...
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Post by balzaccom on May 18, 2020 18:24:51 GMT -8
There is a huge effort being put into opening up professional sports during the Covid19 crisis. Many of the arguments in favor of opening up the games center around the many employees of the stadiums, and how they depend on revenue from the games.
So. I did a little research. About 17 million fans attend NFL games each year. Another 22 million attend NBA games. And Major League Baseball attracts nearly 70 million fans to the stadiums each year.
Wow, you must be thinking. That’s a lot.
Do you know many people visit our national parks each year? Over 300 million—about three times the number that attend NFL, MLB and NBA games combined each year. Another 800 million visit the various state parks throughout the country. Between state and national parks, ten times as many people visit those as attend all professional sports games in the USA.
Of course, our president doesn’t watch our national parks on television, so that must explain why our parks don’t get as much attention…sigh.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 18, 2020 18:57:00 GMT -8
Just about every gateway town in the nation cringes at the thought of three hundred million strangers washing through their hometowns leaving viruses everywhere.
As the damage from missing out on the tourist dollars mount there’s countervailing pressure: but no mistake the local sheriffs closed a lot of access to national parks long before the park service did, every side trail that started outside Shenandoah got blocked by local law enforcement for example while Skyline Dr. was still open. Northern Yellowstone is still closed because Montana imposes a 14 day mandatory quarantine on any out of state visitors. And for a while now the superintendents have bern charged with coordinating with the locals on opening the parks: and parks are still closed. That’s not D. C.
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Post by absarokanaut on May 18, 2020 18:59:08 GMT -8
I'm not aware of any top tier sports that will have fans at games when they do resume or begin their seasons this year if not beyond so I'm a bit perplexed by the notion of any kind of meaningful comparison.
Large cities where top tier sports have their arenas and stadiums have LARGE healthcare infrastructures that would probably be a lot better handling an influx of paitents than the much smaller hospitals, etc., in rural communites outside of relatively isolated National Parks.
I want our parks open if they can be safely, but I want them prepared to shut down at a moments notice too. Far to few of our fellow citizens understand we are in the early innings of this pandemic.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 18, 2020 19:06:04 GMT -8
Yes and re fans? NASCAR is holding a series of races starting yesterday and there’s zero fans attending. It’s purely a competition and television event. So we’ve got that now with the park webcams. 😎 www.nps.gov/yose/learn/photosmultimedia/webcams.htmAnd rangers doing videos.
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on May 19, 2020 5:04:26 GMT -8
Just about every gateway town in the nation cringes at the thought of three hundred million strangers washing through their hometowns leaving viruses everywhere. .... No need for businesses to reopen 100%. Just keep it take out or curbside pickup with an employee wearing a clear face shield + mask. In the case of retail, just tell customers to pop the trunk/hatch ... or call leaving the bag out on the (observed) porch. A hassle but it’ll cut down on shoplifters. In terms of hygiene it’ll need to be ramped up but that should’ve happened with norovirus anyways as it’s just not on cruises. Think this will be with us for awhile, so any store or restaurant without a good online presence should take this opportunity to join the late 20 th century.
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Post by Lamebeaver on May 19, 2020 5:57:22 GMT -8
balzaccom IMHO You just made an excellent article for why the parks should NOT open. Any spot that attracts large groups of people in close proximity (think Old Faithful) is a public health hazard right now.
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davesenesac
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Our precious life is short within eternity, don't waste it!
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Post by davesenesac on May 19, 2020 7:52:22 GMT -8
The argument that rural parks ought remain closed because visitors may overwhelm small local stores and services that locals depend and more importantly their limited health care facilities and hospitals was valid 2 months ago but can be reduced moving forward. It is true locking down as the pandemic rose was the better choice given considerable unknowns but now we have learned, planned, and prepared enough to move incrementally forward opening up more as is currently being done in many states including here in California. Just today it was announced Joshua Tree NP and Redwoods NP were opening up most facilities and trails. Likewise the SF Bay Area is now exploring moving into phase 2. We citizens have had 2 months learning how to better protect ourselves with PPE, cleaning, and virus safe practices.
Back in March there were news media complaints urban people were driving 4 hours to Tahoe ski, stopping for gas, thus possibly passing on the virus from using the gas pumps, credit machines, and convenience stores. Fine because at that point little was known or yet figured out. That took this person just a few minutes to figure out how to make that safe. Thus now have large loose plastic gloves in my car that I use to grab gas pumps, a small cooler half full of soapy water, isopropyl alcohol sanitizer bottles to clean my hands and credit card if necessary, and don't go into any stores enroute because I've bought all my food and whatever locally where I live. And if I do need to go into a store, I have a P100 mask, Nitrile gloves, and have practiced visiting supermarkets safely a few times locally where I live that is now solid habit.
So what about a town like Mammoth Lakes? Should its public lands and park areas still be locked off? Sure makes sense for those kinds of visitors that use lodging, popular public campgrounds, and expect to use town facilities. Well what about more independent visitors that come prepared and don't use town facilities including stores and health facilities? The majority of those that become sick with the virus are if at all possible, not going to choose to go into a small local hospital or clinic if they feel like they are coming down with a viral infection when they can drive back a few hours back to where they live in urban areas with large hospitals and have relatives/friends who can help them. And if they do need to buy something locally in stores, there could be measures put in place to discourage that.
For instance locals might use local ID, billing statements etc to allow preferred use of stores. They could implement policy that anyone without the local residence ID's would face say a $10 minimum charge even to buy a can of soda and any goods are otherwise triple normal price and no alcohol purchases allowed. That would encourage any to be prepared before leaving home. If NF campgrounds, town services, markets, and lodging remained closed, that would discourage the majority of ordinary visitors. But some of that would not really be necessary because some shops like sporting goods could offer curb side purchases and more importantly, now we have increasing evidence going into stores for short periods if wearing a mask with safe behavior is not much an issue. Likewise stores have figured out how to be safer too and that is a huge factor economically.
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almostthere
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putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on May 19, 2020 8:13:28 GMT -8
Every single person entering any park should be issued a trash bag and submit to having every item in their possession tagged indelibly as theirs. Then sign a contract that says that if any item identified as theirs is found abandoned in the park, they get a big f'ing fine.
Signed, one of the sad people who sees the incredible uptick in the trashing and destruction of public spaces and picks up trash on a trail every damn week in the wee hours of the morning.
Keep 'em closed until more people go back to work, for their sake.
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jazzmom
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a.k.a. TigerFan
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Post by jazzmom on May 19, 2020 9:44:12 GMT -8
So. I did a little research. About 17 million fans attend NFL games each year. Another 22 million attend NBA games. And Major League Baseball attracts nearly 70 million fans to the stadiums each year. Yeah, but the reality is that most people experience professional sports on TV. That's where the body count and revenue stream is. So, it's not surprising that they're willing to restart pro sports without spectators. For the parks, I get more than a little annoyed at all the rhetoric about how nobody should have the right to close it because it's "our land." It's the same people who complain about lack of cell signal, closed bathrooms, lack of open restaurants/stores, "bad customer service". They're already complaining about the lack of information about the *exact* date when parks are committed to opening. Because, you know, it's *their* tax dollars paying for it all. So, I know this isn't everybody but my sense is that the few people who know what they're doing are already in the parks, on the quiet and self-sufficiently. And the people making noise about civil rights, who seem to want to travel just to make a point, are exactly the people that the small gateway towns and park residents and workers don't want in their backyard right now.
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balzaccom
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Waiting for spring...
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Post by balzaccom on May 19, 2020 13:36:07 GMT -8
So now it's my turn to apologize for the title of the original post. I am well aware of the hazards of opening the parks, to both the local residents and the park staff--not the mention the fact that apparently social distancing is not likely once the parks are open (see the news stories about Yellowstone opening today).
But I would like to see more attention given to those numbers. And I would like politicians to see those numbers as well---not so much in terms of Covid19, just in general. We love our parks, and they deserve more support than they get.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 19, 2020 15:18:51 GMT -8
Absolutely no way to disagree about that. Both the attendance numbers and, imho, the economic benefit numbers that show upwards of 40 billion dollars being spent in neighboring communities by park visitors. Maybe ding those communities for a ten percent surcharge? Help take a bit out of that 12.5 billion maintenance hole. Report Finds 2018 Spending Supported 329,000 jobs in Hotels, Restaurants, Transportation, RecreationWASHINGTON – As the summer vacation and travel seasons opens, U.S. Secretary of the Interior David Bernhardt announced today that visitor spending in communities near national parks in 2018 resulted in a $40.1 billion benefit to the nation’s economy and supported 329,000 jobs...” www.nps.gov/orgs/1207/national-park-visitor-spending-contributed-40-billion-to-u-s-economy.htm
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Post by hikerjer on May 19, 2020 20:08:12 GMT -8
Concerning professional sports and national parks opening- it's all about money.
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on May 20, 2020 3:43:03 GMT -8
Just about every gateway town in the nation cringes at the thought of three hundred million strangers washing through their hometowns leaving viruses everywhere. .... No need for businesses to reopen 100%. Just keep it take out or curbside pickup with an employee wearing a clear face shield + mask. In the case of retail, just tell customers to pop the trunk/hatch ... or call leaving the bag out on the (observed) porch. A hassle but it’ll cut down on shoplifters. In terms of hygiene it’ll need to be ramped up but that should’ve happened with norovirus anyways as it’s just not on cruises. Think this will be with us for awhile, so any store or restaurant without a good online presence should take this opportunity to join the late 20 th century. Most restaurants cannot survive on takeout only.
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Post by hikingtiger on May 20, 2020 6:41:21 GMT -8
I'm hoping that MT continues with their plan to enter Phase 2 of reopening by 1 June. I've had a trip booked for over a year to YNP later that month. Don't need much in the way of supplies locally.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 20, 2020 7:51:36 GMT -8
'Not a mask in sight': thousands flock to Yellowstone as park reopenswww.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/19/yellowstone-coronavirus-reopening-grand-teton-covid-19?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1Lamebeaver called it. "“We checked the webcam at Old Faithful at about 3.30pm yesterday,” said Kristin Brengel, the senior vice-president of government affairs at the National Parks Conservation Association. “Not much physical distancing happening and not a single mask in sight.”" Not surprised a bit, that park in particular seems to attract more than it's share of the careless and self entitled. Some get dissolved in hot pools others punted by bison or kicked by elk.
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