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Post by indianabob on Dec 17, 2015 22:07:05 GMT -8
Have any of you Glacier experts (Hikerjer, Eric H. et al) heard about this? www.dailyinterlake.com/members/glacier-changing-backcountry-permit-system/article_0e03b7ca-a477-11e5-95be-639f1531c62c.html?mode=storyApparently they are doing away with the lottery and setting up a first come, first served on-line reservation system. As nutty as the lottery was, I'm a little apprehensive. My wife, sister and a close friend are planning a much anticipated return to the park in late August next year. It is super tough for us to swing a trip that far west and north and we are absurdly excited. We hope to make the centerpiece of the trip Kintla TH > Upper Kintla > 2 nights at Boulder Pass to allow for climbing and exploring that general area and back to Upper Kintla. We are also hoping for Dawson-Pitamakan or some variation in the Two Medicine area and some epic day hikes in between. We can be flexible and try for walk-in permits if we don't get the reservations we want, but I have had my heart set on Boulder Pass since we were out there ten years ago. |
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RedDoug
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Trail active, stand back.....
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Post by RedDoug on Dec 19, 2015 6:26:58 GMT -8
Can you apply for your permit now?
Early bird gets the worm?
I wonder if it will impact CDT hikers. Usually CDT hikers get an open pass to get into the system.
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Post by indianabob on Dec 19, 2015 7:38:31 GMT -8
According to the article, the new system will not go live until 3/15/16. In the old system, they did not do the permit lottery until mid-April.
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Post by trekkerman on Dec 23, 2015 16:44:21 GMT -8
Went to Glacier NP a few years ago. Beautiful place, but the hassle over the permits and just getting a car camping space the night before our trip was significant. And we went in September. I'm stickin' to Wilderness Areas.
Trekkerman
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Post by tipiwalter on Dec 23, 2015 18:28:30 GMT -8
The national park system seems crazy. Glacier has 1,013,120 acres and it requires on-foot registration for backpackers? I guess a million acres must be too small for dispersed camping.
We have a national park here in TN/NC called the Great Smoky Mountain NP at 500,000 acres and get this---The park tent police allow backpackers to sleep and camp on only approx 200 acres out of the 500,000 and require a nightly reservation in advance for each site. And $4 per night. To backpack and camp in the rest of the park you have to get an involved Backcountry Permit ad nauseam.
NParks seem to have the land locked up tight.
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Post by trekkerman on Dec 23, 2015 19:31:20 GMT -8
tipiwaiter: I'm not sure what the solution is, but the good and bad news is that the NPs are just way to popular. I concluded many years ago that my solution is to head for designated wilderness areas rather than NPs. Some of the best out West are:
Bob Marshall, Wind Rivers, Sawtooths, Much of Utah outside of Zion NP, and there are many in Washington and Oregon. I'm sure you have numerous suggestions in the SE.
Trekkerman
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Post by tipiwalter on Dec 23, 2015 20:10:22 GMT -8
Yes, thanks trekkerman for the input. I used to avoid the Smokies because I backpacked with a dog for 15 years---verboten in the park. And then they instituted this new Must Camp Here and Let Us Know Every Night Where You Will Be. Impossible to do on a 20 day trip. It's a way too complex system to go into here.
But yes, there are many other areas in the Southeast with dispersed camping and no reservations or permits.
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null
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Post by null on Dec 24, 2015 10:14:31 GMT -8
Hi tipiwalter. While the regulations are frustrating, all you have to do is go into a National Forest and you'll see the different character of the land: roads, ATVs, trash, shell casings, etc. In turn, this is a lot different than the National Forest Wilderness areas.
All this to say that while National Parks are often "locked up tight", many of the places that are not locked up tight can suffer serious degradation at the hands of the few (or at the hands of timber, mining etc).
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Post by hikerjer on Dec 28, 2015 9:52:06 GMT -8
While I've spent a lot of time in Glacier - this is the first year we didn't make it there in 20 years - I've done relatively little backpacking in it. That's for the very reasons mentioned above. Getting a permit is such a hassle and crap shoot that It's hardly worth the trouble. Most of my time has been spent on long day hikes. You can cover a lot of ground that way and although you're not camping, I still find it immensely pleasurable.
I guess I'm sort of in null's camp. The regulations and permit system are probably a necessary evil but Glacier does seem to be particularly frustrating compared to say, Yellowstone or the Grand Tetons. I don't know what the anwer is. The new system may work and may not. We'll see. Seems like anything would be an improvement. It's certainly not going to alleviate the basic problem which is the popularity of the parks and let's face it, we're all a part of that problem the minute we enter a national park..
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RedDoug
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Post by RedDoug on Dec 29, 2015 15:10:42 GMT -8
And then they instituted this new Must Camp Here and Let Us Know Every Night Where You Will Be. Impossible to do on a 20 day trip. It's a way too complex system to go into here.
What do the AT hikers do about this? Eventually, will the AT skirt around the Smokies altogether?
I understand that by the time most AT hikers hit the Smokies NP they are in full stride and want to make miles.
I would like to hear what AT hikers have to say about this.
And, I am not sure about most of the country- but Arizona backcoutry is a mess- everyone outside of the state should just stay away from it. That would be my advice. Go hike in Oregon, or somewhere. There are tarantulas and rattlesnakes- lots of rattlesnakes- like 15 or 17 different kinds- and every plant has a thorn and there are killer African bees, and recluse spiders, and fierce wild pig like things called havelinas, or something like that, and mountain lions and water holes are on the average 100 miles apart! Just to name a few things that make backpacking in AZ very unpleasant and dangerous! Regardless of the crowds- Glacier NP is by far the better choice. |
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Post by tipiwalter on Dec 29, 2015 16:55:19 GMT -8
RedDoug---
They have 7 days to get thru the Park and must pay $20. Yes, and Arizona also has lung fungus. Avoid the AZ backcountry. And please beware of the mountains of TN and NC as we have terrible sawbriar thickets which will remove all swinging appendages.
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Post by trekkerman on Dec 29, 2015 19:37:16 GMT -8
Drive to Pinedale, Wyoming. Drive 13 miles to Elkhart Park TH, start walking. Make a fire, take your dog, catch a fish, camp where you like. Enjoy! What's not to like?
Trrekkerman
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RedDoug
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Post by RedDoug on Dec 30, 2015 15:12:29 GMT -8
Drive to Pinedale, Wyoming. Drive 13 miles to Elkhart Park TH, start walking. Make a fire, take your dog, catch a fish, camp where you like. Enjoy! What's not to like? Trrekkerman That's the spirit- Everyone, go to WY!! |
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Post by trekkerman on Dec 30, 2015 19:39:29 GMT -8
No, No, We don't want everyone in WY. But the point is to get over focusing on our wonderful National Parks. There's so many designated wilderness areas that offer solitude, vistas, and freedom to roam without the necessity of permits, etc. Happy New Year!
Trekkerman
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mk
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North Texas
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Post by mk on Dec 31, 2015 14:24:48 GMT -8
Arizona backcoutry is a mess- everyone outside of the state should just stay away from it. And please beware of the mountains of TN and NC as we have terrible sawbriar thickets which will remove all swinging appendages. Good try, guys! |
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