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Post by dirthurts on Dec 5, 2015 5:10:50 GMT -8
I love camping in the winter. Less people, no bugs, clear views... But I have one fear. It's not the snow, ice, nor the cold. It's not being able to leave when I get back to the trail head. I have a little Saturn Ion, which has no traction control or anti-lock brakes. Most of my snowy peaks in the area involve driving up dangerous, curvy mountains that almost guarantee certain doom if you slide off the slide. Anyone else have this problem? I'm in college, and upgrading my car isn't an option, which is sad as I just committed to another year to attain my masters.
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Post by ecocentric on Dec 5, 2015 6:08:07 GMT -8
Tire chains and a good shovel are essential items. A tow strap isn't a bad idea. Practice driving in an empty, snow covered parking lot to get good at recovering from skidding. Always check the weather forecast before heading out. Take your time, don't get in a hurry. Always make sure people know where you are going and when you will return. Pack extra provisions in case you do get snowed in so that you won't go hungry. Have fun.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Dec 5, 2015 6:12:02 GMT -8
Find a camping buddy with a Jeep
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 6:17:38 GMT -8
I have a little Saturn Ion, which has no traction control or anti-lock brakes. I don't know how much experience you have driving on slick, snowy roads, but I've found that I very rarely need either traction control or anti-lock brakes. My Chevy Colorado has both and it is very rare to have either system activate when I'm driving on slick roads. In fact, if either does activate, it shows I'm not really driving right in the first place. And neither will save me from a truly dangerous situation if I don't drive right for slick conditions. I drove an older small pickup for many years without either traction control or anti-lock brakes. And I drove over curvy mountain roads that were often slick in winter, but I never went off the road. Experience, carefulness, and slow braking and acceleration have a lot to do with staying on the road. Most of my snowy peaks in the area involve driving up dangerous, curvy mountains that almost guarantee certain doom if you slide off the slide. Anyone else have this problem? Yes, I have those conditions but not always. And I don't see them as a great problem. Sometimes I've driven over 50 miles on slick roads just to get to the trailhead. But even in winter, roads are not always slick. It depends quite a bit on whether they are plowed, sanded, etc. And it depends upon shady hillsides where the sun rarely hits the road, wind driving snow over the road, high-traffic areas and so on. As a result, depending on the area and road, you may have slick roads or dry roads with slick stretches. Knowing the road and slowing for slick stretches helps. It also helps if there is not a lot of traffic behind you that is in a hurry. I don't let traffic push me to drive faster than I think is safe. I'd rather use a pullout and let them go around me. Or I just get stubborn and force them to get more patience. Traction control, anti-skid, and anti-lock brakes may provide 10% of your safety, but I'd guess that 90% of your safety is your skill and experience driving on slick mountain roads, your careful choice of dates on which to drive, and your familiarity with the more likely trouble spots on the road.
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BlueBear
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Post by BlueBear on Dec 5, 2015 6:59:10 GMT -8
As Eco pointed out, tire chains and a shovel (and a lot of patience) will get you out of many snowy roads.
I've been stuck pretty well on a couple roads in an old 2wd Toyota sedan and gotten myself out. Had to dig the tires out on a few occasions, but still got home before anyone was worried about me.
However, I would also put a cpl days' extra food and some fuel in the trunk as well, just in case the "stuck" does happen anyway. Already being geared up for a winter backpacking trip puts you at an advantage compared to most people.
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desert dweller
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Post by desert dweller on Dec 5, 2015 7:51:50 GMT -8
Even those of us in southern Arizona have this problem. With our 9 and 10 thousand foot peaks all the hazards are present when driving to a trail head in winter on the steep narrow dirt roads leading up the backside of the ranges. More than once, on the day I have to hike back to the trail head, I've wished for more snow on that day so that there would be better traction. Or, I've timed my departure so that I reach the jeep in the mid-afternoon hoping that the ice would melt, leaving only those places on the road which have been in the shadows all day that are still ice covered.
I echo the advice that the others have given here. Get a 4-wheel drive vehicle and practice driving in snow and ice conditions. Carry tools that will help you dig and/or pull yourself out. And, have emergency provisions on hand.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Dec 5, 2015 8:03:02 GMT -8
I've done tons of winter driving. Front wheel drive has gotten me on many of the worst roads. Tire chains in crazy conditions. On my rear wheel drive cars, tire chains on all four have gotten me up roads that were closed due to conditions on the flanks of Mt. Hood. All-wheel drive with decent tires does fine for me assuming it has a 50/50 lock. Studless snow tires worked on my Mustang. My favorite tire chains so far are the Diamond pattern found at Les Schwab. I like actual chains...not those wimpy cheap ones. I do a double bungie on them so they stay nice and snug to the tire. With those on a 4x4 all the way around, nothing is off limits. I've never been stuck.
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echo
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Post by echo on Dec 5, 2015 8:53:30 GMT -8
I agree on the front wheel drive, the best vehicle I've ever had for snow was my Dodge caravan, driving Nor CA to Wyoming in dozens of winters, it had no problems and I never once chained up, just used all season tires. In another car with rear wheel sometimes I had to back up a steeper hill if it was icy. But snow driving isn't as scary as you think it will be, until suddenly it is, so in that snowy parking lot practice, deliberately lose control a few times and learn what that feels like. It happens fast. The best advice for snow is slow it down a bit and always have food and water and blankets in the car
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Dec 5, 2015 10:32:16 GMT -8
Carry a rug or a couple of shower matts for kneeling while you put on tire chains: on all four wheel not just the drive wheels, for stopping and steering with control you want ALL the wheels grabbing. Good work gloves for your hands are mandatory, you want no reason not to chain up as soon as the road is covered.
Go far slower than you think you have to: speed really does kill on snow and ice when you can get into trouble around every curve.
A shovel is nice, since I have it with me for snow camping I've found value also in a snow saw: sometimes when you slide into a snow bank over your head it's easier to cut the vehicle out rather than just dig...
Practice putting on the chains in a parking lot in the daytime.
Darry a headlamp and spare batteries for two handed work while chaining.
Extra food and water takes some of the urgency out of the whole thing. Top off your gas tank at the last opportunity on the way to the trailhead. Before you leave top off your windshield fluid reservoir and carry extra.
Stick your old car camping synthetic bag in the trunk, more insulation is always welcome.
Get your battery checked out. Cold reduces their power and an old battery can be too dead to start just from deep cold.
New wiper blades are helpful: visibility of snowy mountain night roads is always tricky.
Spare dry clothing in the trunk: sometimes you just get wet putting in chains.
If it doesn't snow where you are on the way up when you can turn off into a BIG parking lot and play around; getting to know your cars particular handling issues is best done far away from trees, cliff edges and oncoming traffic.
Go slow. Go slow. Go slow. You might still slide on a particularly evil patch of black ice: but the damage will be so much less.
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Woodsie
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Post by Woodsie on Dec 5, 2015 10:39:06 GMT -8
Carry a bag of kitty litter in your car. It can be used for traction. I drove a Saturn Ion for 12 years and took it places it was never meant to go. Quite often it isn't the car, but the driver's skills that gets you where you want to go. Like High Sierra Fan said, "Go slow. Go slow. Go slow."
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Dec 5, 2015 10:41:42 GMT -8
Oh also my favorite chains have crossbars welded to the links so there's extra side grip. Diamond pattern chains are the other way side slide is addressed: straight across chains can act as runners...
And they have to fit your cars tires, too big or small is a disaster. Looses chains will break and obviously too small and they either can't be mounted or there's some compromise to the attachments. And having your chains fall off and wrap themselves around the axle is a mess you do not want to deal with.
Speaking of which. Mount the chains, drive slowly for maybe a quarter or half mile then stop and get out and pull on the chains to make sure they're tightly mounted. That was less necessary with classic chains where I jacked up the car and did the mount on an easily accessible wheel: but always a prudent move.
Plan "B" if you're on a steep approach consider parking farther down the hill rather than right at the high TH (also park facing downhill) , better a bit more of a walk rather than waiting until spring to retrieve your buried car.
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Post by rwtb123 on Dec 5, 2015 12:05:08 GMT -8
Like other have said get chains and/or snow tires(and shovel) and with proper winter driving skills you should be fine.When I lived in the mountains in an area known for its black ice I pretty much took off in every snowstorm to get first tracks at ski slopes in a multi-state mountainous area(Va/WVa/Md/Pa).My favorite vehicle was my front-wheel drive Saab SPG even though the low clearance and spoiler to aid performance didn't help in snow drifts or potholed dirt roads.I liked driving this vehicle better even in winter conditions than the 4wheel drive jeep I borrowed on occasion.
Try to drive at a constant speed not too fast or too slow where you will have to accelerate or brake too frequently.In fact,try to keep your foot off the brakes altogether and use a gentle pumping if you have to use them.And learn to correct any skids by steering in the opposite direction.When the nearby town got an infrequent snowstorm the first vehicles in the ditch were the 4wheel drives driven by people no doubt unfamiliar with winter driving skills but going too fast and feeling invincible due to the vehicle they were driving.
Your Achilles heel will be getting stuck in snow drifts versus a 4wheel drive but that is more an inconvenience than a danger as long as you are prepared(shovel/sleeping bag/cellphone/food/etc.) which you will likely be if you are going backpacking...
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Dec 5, 2015 14:47:38 GMT -8
AWD or 4WD is no easy solution if all tires can't get traction. Winters I usually flow with the ski resort traffic going past interesting trailheads.
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Post by Lonewolf on Dec 5, 2015 15:43:43 GMT -8
V-link tire chains with tensioners. These have "V"s welded on the crosschain and act as spikes. Cum-a-long and a long tow strap. These and almost any anchor point will pull you out of anything.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Dec 5, 2015 19:42:26 GMT -8
HA! My biggest concern with winter camping is dying of boredom during the 16 hours of darkness. Also petrifying, if I spend too much of it stuck in a dinky tent. I did enjoy a ski trip where we staying in a primitive hut--there was a wood stove and room to stand up, move around, sit with your feet on the stove telling lies...
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