crawford
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Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.--Edison
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Post by crawford on Jan 24, 2019 6:52:07 GMT -8
swiftdream I, also, ask myself how did I present and represent to help the kid move towards the cliff. I am coming to terms with my errors. Are you asking yourself if you set danny off? Don't think too much on that. He came here not with an honest question. He asked something, didn't like the response and then went off on a paranoid tangent. His lack of skill, awareness, and civility coupled with his arrogance was the issue. If he would have actually heard what people were saying he might have learned. "I need a giant knife to build an emergency shelter!" Actually I've got an excellent shelter in my pack. "I need to process firewood when I get lost." Ok, we have a stove or can pick up and break smaller wood for a fire. "None of you get it, I almost died." That is because you failed to plan, resource your hike, and think when stuff got hard. Develop skills to do that. There is my synopsis of the thread, minus all his attempts at insults and vulgarity. No Ohm, you didn't set him towards the cliff, he ran like a lemming straight to it.
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Post by bradmacmt on Jan 24, 2019 9:01:02 GMT -8
His lack of skill, awareness, and civility coupled with his arrogance was the issue. Actually, I suspect those are symptoms of larger issues...
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ecocentric
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Post by ecocentric on Jan 24, 2019 9:32:59 GMT -8
It was a good exercise. There was plenty of sound advice. I got to think about how to explain/teach something that I sort of do instinctively, out of habit. We all get to wonder about how strange someone else's sense of fun might seem.
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swiftdream
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the Great Southwest Unbound
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Post by swiftdream on Jan 24, 2019 13:38:32 GMT -8
It was a good exercise. There was plenty of sound advice. I got to think about how to explain/teach something that I sort of do instinctively, out of habit. We all get to wonder about how strange someone else's sense of fun might seem. After he Pooh poohed everyone’s advice to help him form getting lost in the first place instead of feeding his survival fantasies of living some kind of Swiss Family Robinson existence for a couple weeks I didn’t feel like using my typing skills further than needed. He can research compass methods with his timebut he has to want to learn. You can’t make someone listen or act for themselves and inaction is a foreign concept for me. He didn’t seem to know that his hero Survivorman dug for water in the desert, made a solar still and it was a total failure but he was adamant about having that shovel to dig for water. He just needs to actually try the techniques instead of making them his fantasies. I think we were more than patient with him.
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Jan 24, 2019 15:58:51 GMT -8
swiftdream I, also, ask myself how did I present and represent to help the kid move towards the cliff. I am coming to terms with my errors. I had some time to think this over and I like Crawford’s answer but ultimately and speaking only for myself, I’m a better learner than a teacher. That is why teachers are so important. My two favorite and best teachers had a certain steady, otherworldly calm and understanding and never did become impatient. But no, none of us including you sent him off. I truly think he really did get lost and scared himself pretty badly. He took a slightly different direction and one stream crossing in can become 12 all of a sudden. With heavy tree cover and not enough attention on the way in that can happen in one mile as it seemed to happen to him. Then the amygdala secrets chemicals to induce fight or flight and unless you remain calm and override them so you can calculate then they will make you panic. They are giving good info on that in the Lost thread. Perhaps he will calm down and think about it logically and eventually get into hard core navigation.
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Post by rodwha on Jan 30, 2019 21:40:49 GMT -8
So I only read the first page to start with. But I usually carry two knives. One is maybe a 1.5” folding knife for cutting cheese or opening sealed packages. The other is a Gerber folding knife that fits in my pocket as I usually dont wear a belt. Some people count ounces and make a big deal out of them each and every one. I, myself, have never been beaten down by carrying an extra 1/4 lb or even a bit more. To each their own I suppose. I’ve not always had my tiny “kitchen” knife and so my pocket knife has come in handy, just as it did during a Campfire event on starting a fire where we tried feathering some wood. Maybe I should weigh my knife, but it’s insignificant to me and can very well, and has, come in quite handy.
I also bring my hatchet at times as significant rocks haven't always been easy to find. And I also bring my multitool as extracting stakes isn’t always that good easy. The hatchet is much more than ounces, and I might not take it on anything more than a backpacking home camp where weight isn’t as big of a deal, but then that depends on the ground and how hard it is, and/or how common sizeable rocks might be. The multitool always comes along and is rarely not used (but mostly just the pliers).
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Post by rodwha on Jan 30, 2019 21:57:03 GMT -8
To be honest ive been a bit curious about a knife that can do the job of a hatchet. It’s almost never necessary in most cases i suppose, but I guess it depends on the situation and what you are willing to carry.
The flipside is i find it peculiar those who count tenths of an ounce and instead of carry a tiny knife that weighs maybe 2-4 oz opt to carry a razor blade that doesnt have the ergonomics of an actual knife making only good for menial jobs. But then most people may not ever need more than that, and I can also appreciate carrying a smaller pack (I have a large pack as I have had to carry most of our daughter’s gear and our water making my pack this last time about 40 lbs). I get cutting weight, but a few oz won’t make or break my trip, and the expense to go to ultral light weight can be rather extreme.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jan 30, 2019 22:25:10 GMT -8
rodwha, I have to think that when you start talking about hatchets you’ve moved far from LNT principals (not sure about the reference to rocks—for hammering in stakes? I’ve never been unable to find a way to get my stakes in the ground; if using a hatchet/hammer makes it so you also need a special tool to get them out, maybe that needs another look, too). Aside from that, while you comment that 1/4 lb never broke you, the point for most of us is that those ounces add up, and so we look at each one of them to decide if it’s necessary. Most of us have no need for more than what you call the “kitchen knife” (the one for cutting cheese and spreading PB), and aren’t willing to carry more than we need. (I will agree that a razor blade is going too far—not even much good for cutting cheese and salami ). While the expense of going UL can add up, removing unnecessary items from the pack is free. Age has pushed me to rethink what is “necessary” every few years.
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OwenM
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Post by OwenM on Jan 30, 2019 23:40:48 GMT -8
Rather than a hatchet and multitool for dealing with tent stakes, you might just need better stakes, and to learn some alternative methods for securing them when they can't be driven into the ground. When it's been rocky or rooty enough that I couldn't drive a stake where I wanted, those conditions have always coincided with rocks or deadfall wood that could be used to anchor them instead. Certainly never needed a hatchet or pliers, and that's after pitching a shelter many hundreds of times.
The whole razor blade instead of a knife thing is like removing labels and shortening straps. It's less about the few grams saved than applying a minimalist mindset to, and *minimizing*, every item carried. Because you have to carry them everywhere you go. That's what a multitool IS, btw-an ultralight way to carry multiple tools. But it's still only a good thing if you actually need all those tools. Do you carry the biggest multitool on the market? Why not? Maybe 'cause it's unnecessarily bulky and heavy due to having stuff you don't need, and therefore don't want to carry around? Same thing.
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rangewalker
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Post by rangewalker on Jan 31, 2019 4:22:47 GMT -8
Benchmade 3.5'' Leatherman small, took the place of small Swiss Army knife. Includes scissors One to two single edge razors for delicate work, in tool pouch.
I have come full circle on carrying a knife. Two weeks the Benchmade helped chip a water hole in the ice. I use my little multi-tool a lot. I keep both on me, not in the pack for backpacking. On my ready-to-go day pack is a cheaper Gerber folder and a little micro Gerber multi tool.
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walkswithblackflies
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Post by walkswithblackflies on Jan 31, 2019 5:42:32 GMT -8
I get cutting weight, but a few oz won’t make or break my trip, and the expense to go to ultral light weight can be rather extreme. The head-scratcher for me, is when you see an ultralighter who needs to lose about 20 lbs around their midsection.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jan 31, 2019 13:48:53 GMT -8
The head-scratcher for me, is when you see an ultralighter who needs to lose about 20 lbs around their midsection. Oh, I’ve laughed at that a time or two, including in myself (though I’m happy to say I’ve never been 20 lbs overweight). But it is undeniably easier to spend money on lighter gear than to actually lose weight. Maybe especially true for that last 5 lbs.
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Post by plaidman on Jan 31, 2019 17:22:19 GMT -8
I alternate between a Victorinox Tinker and a Gerber LST Ultralight. The Gerber is fine for pretty much everything, but I do like having the tweezers and the tooth pick on the Tinker. Our son has a model with a little saw on it. I thought it was too small, but was wrong about that. It's awesome. It seems like most combo knives have scissors and a cork screw. I have no use for those on the trail.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jan 31, 2019 18:44:15 GMT -8
Being old, when I started camping a serious knife was a given but as I moved on to backpacking the cost of heavy metal becomes more obvious. But I guess it is a hard habit to break. I carry a Leatherman PST II that I bought when it first came out. I guess heavy at a little over 5 oz. but I feel like I have a full toolkit with me. I think I am addicted to the pliers. Useful for so many things. They are so well made that I have used them to grab splinters and remove them. I occasionally use the knife for cheese and salami but it still has the factory sharpening with no apparent wear. All the tools get occasional use although there have been trips where it just went for a ride with no use.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jan 31, 2019 19:07:17 GMT -8
I am not sure if Danny is still reading this, but...I will answer honestly in hopes that he learns from it.
I am strictly an off-trail hiker. I've spent weeks in heavy wilderness areas with no trails around. I've experimented with taking just protein shakes (that sucks), learning and living on grub, pine bow, huckleberry, and clover tea, and making bark spaghetti.
No, I don't bring a big knife. I only have a 2" blade on my "large" knife and a smaller 1.5" knife. I've stripped logs intro strips with my 2" knife for firewood with enough wood to keep a fire going for a week. The trick is fire prep. start small, build slowly, plenty of air, know your fuels (including old man's beard, sap wood, know where to find dry wood in any conditions - dig inside rotted stumps, under log jams, the lower limbs of a pine or dig shallow in duff. Shave, shave, shave small wood. No, you don't need vaseline balls...but wouldn't it be nice to just drop some in a decently lined pit and get a jump on it? It's not even an ounce in your pack...vs. a 2-3lb knife.
I've started fires without vaseline balls in sleet, snow, rain and wind as I used to hike for roughly five years year round, off-trail, without a stove (before I came to my senses). A small alcohol stove and a little more than an ounce of fuel is enough to boil water for my coffee and food in every season. I haven't needed a big knife to do so.
If it is too loud for you to sleep, carry a pair of ear plugs. They always sit in my First Aid Kit.
You don't have to go "big" to protect yourself.
I and a team of five other people spent one and a half months on the Greenland Ice sheet, hundreds of miles from the nearest support in the harshest conditions in the world (literally). Our first aid kit was the size of a small briefcase. After nine months of preparation, countless meetings and safety briefings and discussions...that was it. No big knives were brought. Our best tools were clear communication, preparation, and our brains. We weathered storms lasting for over a week that never died down below 40mph, Windchill reaching colder than -100 often, and extreme isolation. We had raging wind storms that reached noise levels so high, my double parka, balaclava, noise canceling headphones, and ear plugs were barely enough to allow for sleep.
Over and over in the replies, I keep seeing person after person tell you that they learned a big knife is a waste and not needed. You keep responding about "being in a survival situation". I've been in several. I've been "lost" for two days. Even without knowing how to use a map and compass properly in a worst case scenario - you can see the sun, you have at least an idea of where you're at on the map and know that the sun is in the southern hemisphere. You can determine a direction to go, reaching civilization. Don't plan on camping. Plan on MOVING unless you are seriously wounded. Focus on getting found if you are. Find a clearing and use what you have to make a signal. Survival is about either A: getting out, or B: Getting found. A PLB, radio, phone, or something should be in your arsenal. A big knife...won't, unless you plan on making the clearing with said knife.
Is it wrong to bring a big knife? No. If it floats your boat, go for it. I used to bring one of those knives from the Rambo movie when I was a kid. It was fun. I even brought a machete a couple times...until I realized what a waste it was.
I experimented with all sorts of survival scenarios. I dug a trench in the dirt under a log and buried myself in it and slept there overnight during a rainstorm when I had a perfectly good shelter 20 feet away. It is well documented that I have used a +40 sleeping bag for years in temps down to 0 on a regular basis as I use layering systems to stay warm.
You keep being you. I hope you have a blast and get the answers you want (or at least hear the answers you expect to hear). I doubt you'll get too many folk agreeing with you on this site if that is what you were expecting. However, I can attest to the wisdom of this site. Years ago, I discovered it and I have done nothing but learn from the combined wisdom (excluding Reuben...He's just evil). There is even a custom knife maker here who might take the time to explain the types of knives and why you might want a specific style, weight, size, etc.
If you want to rejoin the forum and continue this discussion, excluding the foul language, just e-mail me (darren@pc-friendly.net) and I'll let you back. We love people who stir the pot and want to discuss. Controversy and strong opinions are not forbidden here.
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