ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Apr 28, 2017 9:47:38 GMT -8
I have been participating in the Emergency Food thread. It occurred to me that if you are trying to plan for emergency food having an idea how long a rescue would take is a factor. Being older I started hiking before cell phones. If you went without filing a trip plan with someone then went into a remote area and something happened you were on your own. You might be out there for a week+ from a navigation error (no GPS either). If there were searchers looking for you they may not have had a radio (radios were a lot more $$$) Now hikers can carry things like SPOT/InReach and there are a lot more hikers so even in remote areas there is a good chance of running into someone. With everyone having a GPS on their phone the chances of getting way lost are reduced. They're even using drones to aid in searches now. Likely your friends could provide a last known whereabouts from the selfies you are sending them from the trail. SAR radios now can send GPS info so the command center knows where they all are and where they have searched. So the worst case scenario nowadays would be something like this. People knew right away she was lost from her texts and immediately started looking for her. What appears to have gone wrong is that she sat still where no one could see her. I would also like to point out that it took 26 days for her to starve. An extra day of food probably wouldn't have made a difference. More battery power for her phone may have. In searching for the above incident link I came across this. Didn't end up well but to my point he was found within a day and he wasn't even the one who initiated the search request. But I guess someone who is putting their gear on backwards probably can't dial a phone. Can it be assumed there is a fairly reliable safety/rescue net in place now where most people hike that can provide help within a day or less?
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Apr 28, 2017 10:00:33 GMT -8
It took 2 days to get a message out to the rangers in the Grand Canyon that a person had died on our trip. Took them 2.5 hours to get the chopper up. Took another 30 minutes to locate our group. Since this all took place in what would've been the middle of our trip, no one was in any danger of running out of food. We were close enough to a small water source to fill bottles every couple of hours. Had we had to walk all the way out to get help, that would've taken an extra day for the person(s) going for help. Only time I have given it a thought.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Apr 28, 2017 10:10:28 GMT -8
It took 2 days to get a message out to the rangers in the Grand Canyon that a person had died on our trip. I'm sorry you had to go through that. If you don't mind me asking what year was this? I ask because part of my point is that things are changing. I read that Verizon has added at least one tower in the park. I think at the Village on the south rim.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Apr 28, 2017 10:41:12 GMT -8
2007. We were on the South side, but way West of Hermit. I have had cell phone reception while on the trail to Clear Creek, on the North side, while the South Rim Village was in sight. Don't think that tower would've helped us then. We were not in line of sight. Wouldn't have been in sight of the North Rim development either. Satellite phones would've gotten the message out faster, but we weren't carrying one. Wouldn't have saved the deceased, but would've ended the experience faster for those of us who were survivors.
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Apr 28, 2017 11:17:40 GMT -8
Only in the most unusual of situations will you die of starvation. Exposure, dehydration, or perhaps physical trauma are much more likely to kill you in a survival situation.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Apr 28, 2017 11:44:36 GMT -8
Like the minister who died in the Winds a decade or so ago? Had his foot get trapped under a rock he couldn't move, as best as I recall. Pack out of reach, so he couldn't amputate like that guy in Utah.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Apr 28, 2017 12:08:20 GMT -8
Technology is great, but it's not a replacement for common sense. In the case of the women who stepped off the trail for a bathroom break and got confused, a compass and the understanding of box grid search is all she needed. When you realize you are lost, STOP! Turn around, and SLOWLY see if you can backtrack. Often, you can see where you bent grass of left tracks. If you can't backtrack, then get out your compass and walk for one minute in each direction in a box pattern (N, E, S, W). Then walk 2 minutes in each direction, then 3, then 5, then 10. Eventually, you will cross the trail.
And leaving a detailed itinerary with someone reliable is still a good idea.
Bottom line, every smart thing you learn tilts the odds in your favor, and every stupid thing you do works against you. Try to be more smart and less stupid.
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Post by JRinGeorgia on Apr 28, 2017 12:22:46 GMT -8
there are a lot more hikers so even in remote areas there is a good chance of running into someone. I don't agree that there necessarily is a "good" chance of running into someone. Maybe a better chance than it used to be, so perhaps the chance improved from dismal to remote, but not necessarily to good. I've had plenty of days hiking on an established trail where I didn't see anyone all day, let alone when going off trail. Depends where you're hiking. Which is exactly why I carry either a PLB or InReach.
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Post by Coolkat on Apr 28, 2017 12:36:02 GMT -8
People knew right away she was lost from her texts and immediately started looking for her. Maybe I read the wrong link but it said the texts didn't go through. Text messages sent to her husband went undelivered and the 66-year-old woman accepted the fact that she was going to die, according to newly released investigatory documents obtained by the Associated Press. There is only one trail that I know of that I hike where I can get cell service even then it's only on one half of the hike. Don't depend on your phone.
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Post by Coolkat on Apr 28, 2017 12:38:17 GMT -8
Which is exactly why I carry either a PLB or InReach. I looked into an InReach to calm my wife's fears but wow between the device and subscription it's kinda pricey especially if you only need it a couple of times a year for 7 to 10 days.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Apr 28, 2017 13:30:16 GMT -8
On the other hand, if it saves your life it suddenly becomes very inexpensive.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Apr 28, 2017 14:54:26 GMT -8
Maybe I read the wrong link but it said the texts didn't go through. Sorry I re-read it and you are correct. The search for her did start two days after she went off trail but that was due to her husband alerting authorities.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Apr 28, 2017 15:37:25 GMT -8
Don't depend on your phone. This is good advice. That being said there are things you can do to get to a cell. Cell signals can go fairly far if line of sight. She could have left markers and/or notes and made her way uphill until she got on top of something. More markers/notes would increase the chance of searchers finding her trail. She may have even ran back into the AT. She may have gotten a signal on top but failing that possibly seen some sort of civilization to head to or be spotted from the air. If I am reading the map right she was only about 5 miles from Sugarloaf ski area. I would think there is a cell there or nearby. If she didn't have a signal mirror I would try using my cell as a signal mirror. At least on my phone the glass is pretty flat and reflective. I definitely would not have stayed put nestled in a grove of pine trees and starved to death.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Apr 28, 2017 15:48:14 GMT -8
P.S. I looked up how far digital cell phones can go line of sight. GSM is limited to about 22 miles for timing of protocol reasons. Other protocols can reach as far as 45 miles line of sight.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Apr 28, 2017 18:26:17 GMT -8
...and that assumes that there's a GSM, CDMA, or other tower within range, which may not be true.
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