RumiDude
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Marmota olympus
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Post by RumiDude on May 31, 2019 8:15:07 GMT -8
Here's a piece from PBS NewsHour about the Everest issue which helps explain everything. And as he notes, everyone is required to hire a Sherpa.
Everest held a mystique for being the highest mountain in the world, but is now the poster child for everything that has gone wrong with mountaineering guiding.
Rumi <~~~~~~psychedelic guide
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ecocentric
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Post by ecocentric on May 31, 2019 10:23:55 GMT -8
Pride and a desire to distinguish ourselves from the crowd are positive traits that can go wrong. Humans place high value in accomplishing goals against all odds. This is at the heart of all of the stories that our species cherishes. Greed and avarice are common distractions from otherwise virtuous pursuits. When the air gets thin, reason does too. Your first swim in the Death Zone shouldn't start at the deep end. Guides and the government of Nepal share some blame, but they are doing a legitimate service to humans that want to excel at something that doesn't translate well to many people. When humans stop trying to do more, go higher, faster, or be more efficient, they stop the progress of the species. We can blame the media for focusing/amplifying but we are talking about it because it is one of those weird data points that defines our species.
My crystal ball has never been good, but I would contribute to a fund to establish the kind of route on Everest like they have in the Dolomites, with cables, ladders, established belay/rapel/winch points and oxygen caches if they charge out the a$$ for the opportunity to climb the world highest mountain. I would specify that the money be sufficient to clean up the mountain, pay the Sherpas well, and provide more education and healthcare for the people living in Nepal.
Mount Whitney is my highest point. I've made damn fool errors in judgement from there to below sea level. That's how I've learned some of the important stuff I think I know now.
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Post by Lamebeaver on May 31, 2019 10:43:00 GMT -8
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Post by johntpenca on May 31, 2019 11:11:52 GMT -8
My crystal ball has never been good, but I would contribute to a fund to establish the kind of route on Everest like they have in the Dolomites, with cables, ladders, established belay/rapel/winch points and oxygen caches if they charge out the a$$ for the opportunity to climb the world highest mountain. Everest is a via ferrata already. Sherpas do all the things you mention and more. ETA: the guided route is not the only way up Everest, It is the easiest.
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Post by johntpenca on May 31, 2019 11:30:12 GMT -8
Apologies if this has already been shared. Read the article. Yes, people that don't have the experience or physical capacity to summit and get down is a large factor. But crowds and waiting exacerbate the exposure. I put the burden on the guiding agencies. It is true guiding is a large source of the sherpa's income. It is a complicated situation. Nepal needs money, sherpas need money, westerners have lots of cash.
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ecocentric
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Post by ecocentric on May 31, 2019 11:34:29 GMT -8
Everest is a via ferrata already. Sherpas do all the things you mention and more. Yes, to a degree, not quite like the Alps but more remote at higher altitude with poorer infrastructure. Tourism is a huge slice of many economies. We are seeing adventure tourism and ecotourism making important impacts on local economies and ecosystems in critical places all around the world, even Antarctica. It is an industry. Industries need to be regulated. I prefer that to regulating individuals. Just leave me some wild space where I can roam freely.
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Post by johntpenca on May 31, 2019 13:49:18 GMT -8
Tourism is a huge slice of many economies. We are seeing adventure tourism and ecotourism making important impacts on local economies and ecosystems in critical places all around the world, even Antarctica. It is an industry. Industries need to be regulated. I prefer that to regulating individuals. Just leave me some wild space where I can roam freely. I hear ya. I think we are in agreement. It's all a matter of economics. Europe get plenty of tourist dollars. Nepal, not so much. That's why I hold the Himalaya guide services responsible. Sherpas need the money, but when all is said and done get a small part of the profit.
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toejam
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Hiking to raise awareness
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Post by toejam on Jun 1, 2019 10:31:37 GMT -8
Here's a piece from PBS NewsHour "...the ability to help other people becomes very, very limited to those strongest people on the mountain, and those are typically the most experienced Sherpas up there. It's not the normal person climbing - it's someone like myself." Bwahh haww! Who is this old American comparing himself with the most experienced Sherpas? My limited knowledge is from conversations with Everest climbing guides I was with on guided climbs of Mt. Rainier, and the handful of books I've read. The risk appears to me to be based in logistics and experience. Experienced guide services like Rainier Mountaineering, Inc. and International Mountain Guides don't get caught up in the chaos and traffic jams. They have guides on the mountain establishing camps and routes well ahead of the bubble. A guy from one of my Rainier climbs attempted Everest this year with IMG. He's an experienced climber who already climbed the other Seven Summits. He got his ass kicked during IMG's acclimatization program, which included treks through the Khumbu icefall and climbing a neighboring peak. He described himself as a zombie when he arrived at Camp 1, and it was clear that he didn't have the physical ability to continue. He went home with an amazing experience and all his digits. This notion that anybody with money to burn can be dragged to the summit by Sherpas doesn't fly with me. Only strong climbers make it to the top. It looks to me like groups/organizations that aren't well-established enough to overcome supply, labor, and acclimatization challenges are getting people into trouble when they succumb to the lack of oxygen, start late, and clog the route.
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Post by Moonshae on Jun 2, 2019 16:31:06 GMT -8
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Post by johntpenca on Jun 3, 2019 14:45:01 GMT -8
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