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Post by Crockett on Oct 29, 2015 9:22:41 GMT -8
Re Travis N Wood
I don't think the study is making any distinction in regards to front or backcountry but speaks simply of campfires in general.
In regards to your list: Not to condone it but I would think it fairly common for backcountry users to burn some of those items rather than pack them out - namely plastic food wrappers (Saran Wrap, Ziplocs), cigarettes and colored cardboard packaging.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Oct 29, 2015 9:53:16 GMT -8
Just think of it. That firelight seen from miles away. That whiff of smoke upon the breeze. That puff of smoke cloud along the treeline. Those half-burnt coals that were still warm to the touch. Every GAW included a scene or two where the campfire provided the crucial tracking evidence that resulted in a gunfight, in arrows flying, in a shiny sheriff's badge appearing out of the darkness. You name it. Then again, before PLBs, Spot, and cell phones, having a roaring campfire handy was invaluable if you needed to send a message
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 10:37:01 GMT -8
Re Travis N Wood I don't think the study is making any distinction in regards to front or backcountry but speaks simply of campfires in general. In regards to your list: Not to condone it but I would think it fairly common for backcountry users to burn some of those items rather than pack them out - namely plastic food wrappers (Saran Wrap, Ziplocs), cigarettes and colored cardboard packaging. We have no way of knowing what most backpackers do. I do not have the impression you have. But if what you say is true, if it is common for backpackers to be so reckless of LNT Principles, and if they truly lack so much respect for the backcountry — then it would be fine with me if they were banned from backcountry areas. Many folks here, including Backpacker Magazine, have voiced the opinion that to preserve wilderness we must maintain backpacker numbers. But if it is so common for backpackers to be so reckless with their trash, then clearly backpackers as a group are not preserving wilderness. Instead they are trashing it and the environment the wilderness depends upon. I hope you are very wrong.
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walkswithblackflies
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Post by walkswithblackflies on Oct 29, 2015 10:49:23 GMT -8
When everyone in a campground with 150 sites builds a lovely fire with wet wood and no skill, smoke can get pretty bad. My fave is when they use a gallon of lighter fluid to get it started.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Oct 29, 2015 11:14:37 GMT -8
"Nonetheless, I would still place the risk of forest fire and the impacts to the backcountry above the risk of cancer from wood smoke."
Absolutely and not even in particular because the DOSE of those chemicals from an infrequent vacation campfire would be so small as to be biologically meaningless.
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Oct 29, 2015 12:38:39 GMT -8
Did this get so technical that xiaolichen1988 was left behind? I wonder?
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Oct 29, 2015 13:23:10 GMT -8
Did this get so technical that xiaolichen1988 was left behind? I wonder? Hopefully as she gets closer to her planning for the John Muir Trail etc. she'll post further.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 13:34:38 GMT -8
Did this get so technical that xiaolichen1988 was left behind? I wonder? She's one of dozens of new members who introduce themselves or begin their activity with a question — to which they may get numerous responses — and then we rarely see them post again. I've asked myself "Why?" literally for years. Maybe they find what they are looking for in that one thread. Maybe they are disappointed with the answers they get. Maybe they would rather lurk than be involved. And maybe they have not backpacked enough to understand the conversation. People here sometimes throw out acronyms and abbreviations as if they are common knowledge. But for new backpackers: What does LNT mean? What does FS mean? What does "bping" mean? What does HYOH mean? I often spell those things out. It only takes a few keystrokes. Why not? Only last week I considered starting a new thread such as, "New Members, Check In." I'd like to ask them how things are going. Was there anything that happened since starting their first threads that left them in the background afterward? I recall how much people complained about forum software that was all messed up. Now we have good software, and I'm continually disappointed at all the slow times when no one has posted for hours. For the benefit of new members and newer backpackers, I see no reason not to ask the old familiar questions that we may have heard before — even if those questions are about the hot button issues such as dogs on the trail, guns versus bearspray, and so on. But what will happen? The thread will likely be flooded by familiar voices, and again the new members won't participate. Who knows? Maybe we need court-ordered forum participation.
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Post by flyinion on Oct 29, 2015 15:52:31 GMT -8
As a newbie I'd just like to say the discussions in this thread have been very enlightening. I have not actually started my adult backpacking experience yet......still getting in shape and hope to move up from day hikes to backpacking next Spring. However I think when I do "move up", I will not be building any campfires in the backcountry now. Obviously as at least one person mentioned, I'll have the supplies on hand in case of an emergency need for one, but that's it.
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Post by Coolkat on Oct 29, 2015 16:44:19 GMT -8
Only last week I considered starting a new thread such as, "New Members, Check In." I'd like to ask them how things are going. Was there anything that happened since starting their first threads that left them in the background afterward? As a quasi-newbie I'll speak to this a little bit. I can't speak for the OP as I realize that she asked for opinions and everyone has freely given their opinion but she also said in the beginning that she enjoys a campfire and is disappointed when she isn't able to. If it had been me that started this thread I would have shut up also. The opinions here were not that strong necessarily but were so overly leaned in one direction (right or wrong) that I probably wouldn't post again in this thread either if I first stated how much I enjoy campfires like the OP did in the beginning. However, I think some of this has a lot to do with personalities. Some this wouldn't bother in the least others are intimidated by it. Some like to argue/debate while others just like a nice friendly conversation and if it appears that how they see things is in the minority while some strong opinions are given they will just move on quietly. Which by-the-way is why I never post in the political area. I know after reading there a while my thoughts on things would definitely draw "friendly" fire. Anyway enough said. I don't think anyone did anything wrong I just think it comes down to personalities. Maybe with some encouragement the OP will explain why she has become quiet.
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Oct 30, 2015 4:40:37 GMT -8
But what will happen? The thread will likely be flooded by familiar voices, and again the new members won't participate. Who knows? I'm sure many here have moved to new cities (or new forums)? I have a few times and trying to wiggle into a new group of people who already know each other (and have inside jokes) can be daunting. Even electronically. Often it is easier -- and occasionally, more informative -- to simply lurk. I, personally, tend to skip the introduction or initial question threads and jump right into the mix where possible. However, I think some of this has a lot to do with personalities. Some this wouldn't bother in the least others are intimidated by it. Some like to argue/debate while others just like a nice friendly conversation and if it appears that how they see things is in the minority while some strong opinions are given they will just move on quietly. Which by-the-way is why I never post in the political area. I know after reading there a while my thoughts on things would definitely draw "friendly" fire. I'm accustomed to foruming with Europeans and Ozzies/Kiwis, so the largely USian member-base here provides interesting perspective into local/global affairs. This, of course, is concentrated in TPA where I also take the reserved approach to posting.
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trinity
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Post by trinity on Oct 30, 2015 5:33:40 GMT -8
Now we have good software, and I'm continually disappointed at all the slow times when no one has posted for hours. Same here. But we lost a lot of momentum, long-time members, and a ton of archived material during the shift. Now that we have good software and a good core from the old forum, I think we'll get back up to speed, it will just take a while. New folks are coming in slowly, but we've had some relative newbies who are already contributing much to the forum. If it had been me that started this thread I would have shut up also. The opinions here were not that strong necessarily but were so overly leaned in one direction (right or wrong) that I probably wouldn't post again in this thread either if I first stated how much I enjoy campfires like the OP did in the beginning. This is an important reminder. However, I don't think anyone got too off topic (until now!), and she did ask what we think. Maybe we could have reined it in a bit, but a thread is like any conversation, eventually it takes on a life of its own. But I do know that I started to reply about how much I dislike campfires, then thought about how many people had already expressed this sentiment, and concluded that I had nothing constructive to add. Maybe we piled on a bit, but she got some tremendous information in response to her question, about both fires and bear canisters. Truthfully, the current incarnation of the forum is way kinder and gentler than it has been in the past. A couple of years ago the OP probably would have been called horrible names for even posing the question. I learned to expect hostile posts from certain people, and it never bothered me too much, but it could be very off-putting to new members. I like the culture of the current forum a lot better, though smaller I think it is far more welcoming. The transition was tough, but we lost a lot of trolls in the process. Another point about the OP; she may just have a life, and hasn't had time to check back in, or she may (like me) just be naturally inclined to do more reading than posting. Whatever the case may be, I hope she's still around, as I think her posts indicate a lot of enthusiasm for the outdoors, and I think she would not only learn a great deal here, but be a valuable contributor as well.
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mk
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Post by mk on Oct 30, 2015 6:06:30 GMT -8
She's one of dozens of new members who introduce themselves or begin their activity with a question — to which they may get numerous responses — and then we rarely see them post again. I've asked myself "Why?" literally for years. Ok - new member take on this. One confession -- I used to read the old forums (I hate the word "lurk") because I was gathering information. And what a wealth it was. I learned a ton from all of you very experienced backpackers. At that point, I hadn't backpacked yet but I was learning. When I found this new version, I had started backpacking and I did have a question so joined and posted. And you were all very welcoming and had some helpful tips for me. Sometimes, however, it is obvious to me that your core group has a long and storied history together. So it's kind of like joining the group late when everyone knows one another and you don't know anybody. That's not a criticism, just an observation, but It can be a little intimidating. I'd like to see this forum become as active as it used to be. So hopefully the newcomers are reading and will start participating more soon. Not sure if this adds anything, but it's kind of the start of my story ...
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Post by Coolkat on Oct 30, 2015 7:04:36 GMT -8
Sometimes, however, it is obvious to me that your core group has a long and storied history together. So it's kind of like joining the group late when everyone knows one another and you don't know anybody. That's not a criticism, just an observation, but It can be a little intimidating. I'd like to see this forum become as active as it used to be. I would agree with this! And again as MK stated it's not a criticism because that is the nature of the dynamics in an online forum. Now I will admit that part of the blame can also be placed on the new members. It's like to going to party where you don't know anyone and sitting in corner to yourself and complaining that no one talks to you. Sometimes you need to stick your neck out there and test the waters. On the other hand as a new member it can be kinda frustrating and off putting if you make post after post and no one responds. This can easily happen in an established online forum where everyone is already comfortable with each other. Now we have really veered off topic but it's nice to have this conversation without people's feathers getting ruffled.
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Oct 30, 2015 7:28:23 GMT -8
^ Sometimes folk just want a quick answer to a question or hope for a recommendation for a product they may never have heard of. They have no intention of joining the BP community. There is no problem with this, of course.
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