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Post by williamh4 on Aug 27, 2015 9:39:53 GMT -8
I've been doing some reading regarding backpacking. I just read something regarding external vs internal frame backpacks. The book I'm reading is 10 years old, so I want to know if the information is still accurate as technology and design can change.
It was suggested an external frame backpack is more durable and can carry more weight if needed as opposed to an internal backpack. However, the internal backpack is more sleek and potentially easier to use when navigating.
Also wanted some advice on where to purchase a backpack and get an opinion on some available on Amazon. I'm sure many of you purchase some expensive equipment and potentially with good reason. I've seen backpacks on Amazon with 4.5-5.0 star ratings with hundreds of reviews for under $100.00. I have also seen backpacks with great ratings costing a few hundred dollars. Can anyone offer any advice regarding their experience between the cost extremes?
Maybe I should start another thread, but wanted to pose the same question about tents. I found a 1-man/woman tent on Amazon for <$100.00! More than 100 reviews and the tent is at 4.5 stars. Reading through the reviews, many of the backpackers have gone on a few trips for several days, in all kinds of inclement weather and have nothing but positive things to say. Again, at the other end of the spectrum, I've looked at tents $400.00-$500.00 for one person.
Thank you
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Post by rwtb123 on Aug 27, 2015 9:50:32 GMT -8
That advice is still accurate on internal vs external plus the internal will weigh less w/o the rigid support system.I would avoid the $100 Amazon packs or tents they will just not be that high quality.Rather I would look for the more expensive high quality gear lightly used on ebay for a significant discount.Check backpackgeartest,outdoorlabs or the various backpacker forums such as this one for reviews,opinions or field tests of potential quality gear.
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Post by williamh4 on Aug 27, 2015 10:00:15 GMT -8
I don't mind spending money on quality equipment. I'm usually the first person to say "you get what you pay for" (especially with tools). But, I don't want to pay for a name either. I know there are good products out there much less expensive than the well know products. I'm just not familiar with backpacking products.
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Post by williamh4 on Aug 27, 2015 10:02:21 GMT -8
That advice is still accurate on internal vs external plus the internal will weigh less w/o the rigid support system.I would avoid the $100 Amazon packs or tents they will just not be that high quality.Rather I would look for the more expensive high quality gear lightly used on ebay for a significant discount.Check backpackgeartest,outdoorlabs or the various backpacker forums such as this one for reviews,opinions or field tests of potential quality gear. Thank you. I'll check those sources. Although, I can't imagine anyone ever quitting backpacking. JK, I'm sure many go out only once and decide it's not for them.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 27, 2015 10:09:39 GMT -8
External frames transfer all of your lower body sway to the pack load: on trails that's not much of an issue, off trail and a big step over can seriously disrupt your balance leading to dangerous instability. Internal frames don't do that. Their issue is with many designs they're very close fitting to your back which can make them overly warm for some. A properly fitted internal can carry weight just like an external. trick is getting that proper fit....
For a shelter in benign forest locations where the thing is going to need to keep the rain off and afford some privacy most anything will do: the variable being how much it weighs, and for many Amazon purchasers durability isn't much of an issue with a couple to a handful of weekends out a year and again a weekend load of food means the overall weight isn't that big of a deal so a little heavier shelter doesn't matter (those are the trips I carry Chinese takeout!). The trick is separating aspirations from reality. buying something that will withstand hurricane force winds on exposed mountain ridges at under two pounds is all good: except when you NEVER go near anything like that, then it's a waste of money. OTOH if you do go into extreme conditions on a routine basis buying the lightweight, frail, inexpensive online wonder can get you killed....
I spent many a weekend in the Sierra using a Coghlan's Tube Tent: still available now for the inflated price of $9.95. In the Summer, no more than a long day from the trailhead, easily repaired with white athletic tape..... oddly enough I've drifted back to a similarly simple shelter after wandering through ever more elaborate backcountry tents, a Mountain Laurel Designs SoloMid. Conditions vary and no one size fits all.
Bottom line if a $50 pack fits it's vastly better than a $500 pack that doesn't. Especially if it's used for the occasional near country outing rather than for weeks at a time back beyond the edges of nowhere....
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Post by trinity on Aug 27, 2015 10:10:09 GMT -8
Definitely don't buy from Amazon. Go to a local retailer, they will sell you quality gear and provide you with priceless information. If you have an REI in the area, go spend some time there, and then buy with confidence, knowing that you can return anything within a year that you feel unsatisfied with. REI makes some of the best starter tents around, IMHO, some of the best bang you can get for the buck. They also make decent packs. Packs are a lot more difficult to buy than tents, since fit is such an individual thing. I haven't carried an external frame pack in decades, and if you were to poll the folks on this forum, I am guessing you would find very few who carry them, internal frames are the norm nowadays. You will also be best off if you purchase your tent, sleeping bag and pad before your backpack, since the bulk and weight of these items will largely determine the capacity you will require for your backpack. I'd probably plan to start somewhere in the 55 liter range.
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Post by williamh4 on Aug 27, 2015 10:43:43 GMT -8
Definitely don't buy from Amazon. Go to a local retailer, they will sell you quality gear and provide you with priceless information. If you have an REI in the area, go spend some time there, and then buy with confidence, knowing that you can return anything within a year that you feel unsatisfied with. REI makes some of the best starter tents around, IMHO, some of the best bang you can get for the buck. They also make decent packs. Packs are a lot more difficult to buy than tents, since fit is such an individual thing. I haven't carried an external frame pack in decades, and if you were to poll the folks on this forum, I am guessing you would find very few who carry them, internal frames are the norm nowadays. You will also be best off if you purchase your tent, sleeping bag and pad before your backpack, since the bulk and weight of these items will largely determine the capacity you will require for your backpack. I'd probably plan to start somewhere in the 55 liter range. We do have an REI in the area. I had no clue there was such a place here.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Aug 27, 2015 14:55:24 GMT -8
My custom internal frame pack will carry more than I could or would ever want to carry (easily as much as my old external frame Kelty). If your goal is find a pack that will carry a ton, your backpacking experience will be a short one. In general, external packs can carry more gear, but also weigh more and balance is not as good since they sit off your back. Good balance requires the core of the weight directly over your hips/as close to your back, preferably in the shoulder blade area as possible. That's why internal frame packs are so popular these days.
Tent-wise, location, environment, etc. go a long way toward finding the kind of tent/shelter you need/want. I have a variety of extremes in this category from floorless shelters to dome tents to hammocks to bivies. Materials - aluminum vs. fiberglass poles, poly vs. silnylon, stitching style, seam-taped, how many poles, guy-out points, floor space, height all come into play.
Things don't have to cost a ton to perform but in some cases, you'll have a difficult time finding something cheap that does. My favorite stove costs $20. My favorite headlamp costs $30. My favorite backpack...$600 on sale.
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toejam
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Post by toejam on Aug 28, 2015 4:22:58 GMT -8
Great ratings on Amazon doesn't mean it's actually backing equipment that people who actually backpack use. Unless the tent is a Euraka Spitfire, then they got it right. We are familiar with the popular brands and models of real backpacking equipment. So let us know the specifics - if we haven't heard of it, it may be something new and groundbreaking, but it's most likely junk.
You need to spend some time at REI trying on packs with weight, and setting up & crawling inside tents. It's not a good idea to buy a pack online when you don't know how it will feel with a load.
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wanderboth
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Post by wanderboth on Aug 28, 2015 8:51:12 GMT -8
When we take clients out, we always get similar questions...
The first thing I tell them is that there are MANY personal variables to consider first, but let me do my best to help...
You need to determine first the frequency that you'll be doing backpack outings. If you go twice a year, then even the worst of worst quality is doable. If you buy a pack that only lasts 10 trips, that's already five years. We go out about twice a month, so a cheap brand might only last us half a year.
If you don't plan to do long duration trips, then fit isn't as important. For instance, if you only intend to do 3 day trips at about 4 miles a day, then fit isn't as important. At that rate, the bag will only be on your back for 6 hours or so throughout the whole trip. Of course, if you plan on doing 15 mile treks for several days straight, then fit becomes crucial.
With that, NEVER order a bag online unless you've already fitted it elsewhere, but keep in mind how important fit is to you. I suppose if you really only plan to wear the pack for a few hours a year, than fitting can be skipped if you can't test it out in person.
It's true that a lot of branding figures into the cost of a pack, but quality is definitely figured in as well. For entry level, here are some brands that will start around or under $100: High Sierra, Teton, Alps Mountaineering, and Kelty. These are only the ones I have experienced with that I consider passable. Many other sub $100 didn't fair so well.
As for tents, follow the same guidelines as pack but minus the fitting. One or two simple trips a year can be done with just about any tent. More than that and you should look into higher quality tents.
For the most part, the weight of each item should be kept below 5lbs, and that's still pretty high.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 28, 2015 8:54:58 GMT -8
"equipment that people who actually backpack use." Well maybe yes or maybe no. Are people who take a few overnight hikes a year into some benign backcountry in reliable weather "actually" backpacking?
I'd suggest they are: but do they need the performance of a $750 pack and a $1,000 tent to go with their $550 sleeping bag? Nope. This past July I passed people up in Yosemite carrying all manner of "junk" and having the time of their lives based on how wide their grins were.
Two items are at play it seems to me: A: how much and where will a person REALLY be going out (and that's a tough one, aspirational issues looming large) and B: There's is zero chance a person just starting out is ever going to buy the equipment they'll still be using once they've gained experience and insight into backpacking THEIR way. Which BTW is why there's some excellent gear to be found on such as EBay and Craigslist: people having found "The BEST!" not to actually be "best" for them: not junk, just not suited to their style. In previous generations that stuff piled up in the back of garages and closets, now it's got a way to get out there.
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Post by williamh4 on Aug 28, 2015 9:23:41 GMT -8
Thank each of you for your responses. Each post I read gave me some idea of what I want to do. I believe there are some items I'll go a little less expensive on and some I won't skimp on. And, as was pointed out, depending on my aspirations, I can upgrade over time. This forum is a great resource for new backpackers.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on Aug 28, 2015 9:53:00 GMT -8
With that, NEVER order a bag online unless you've already fitted it elsewhere, but keep in mind how important fit is to you. The last backpack procurement we made was done online with good results. We needed (2) packs for a specific application. We ordered (1) @ of all three sizes from the OEM. Fitted them at home with loads, determined proper sizing, kept what fit, returned the rest. In our case it was a specialty pack not available at REI or other local outdoor specialty shops. Under normal circumstances, as suggested, fitting at a retailer is most desirable. Wanderboth's pack and tent rationale is great feedback.
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speacock
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Post by speacock on Aug 28, 2015 10:12:34 GMT -8
There are two things that you should be deliberate about picking. Both generally respond to what you pay for is what you get. I would heed HSF's wisdom.
REI has a good rental program. Take one for a spin some weekend. Overload it to see how it feels after 5-10 miles. Look for rubbing or pressure on the hips where the harness contacts; shoulders taking too much of the load; load pulling back making you lean forward.
Find out how to initially measure for a good fit and what a good fit feels like. You could go a year borrowing or renting packs.
Same with a tent. Go on trips with others (Sierra Club perhaps) and ask for a show and tell and what they like or don't like about it. Study the posts of others here and other forums about tents and gear.
I still have my red pack Kelty I had out of College. I've carried pony kegs on it to mountain club parties. It was a 'Sherpa' pack frame for getting ropes and hardware to bottoms of long climbs (in the day). I now have a sturdy internal pack (Clovis) that I got through an auction on Ebay. He was a pack designer and builder and hoped an auction would generate more leads. There was only one bid - albeit a low one. I very much like the pack It weighs 7 pounds but absolutely fits me and my abuse. It wasn't my first pack - probably closer to 6th. My day to day training pack for around the neighborhood is a Lowe Alpine Contour IV, that I overload (until it squeaks) with bags of kitty litter for some shorter day hikes. It was my first external - a good one (for me). My wife carried the Lowe Sirroco for many 8+ day outings. She doesn't do that anymore. If I do the PCT or Ak's I'd get a 3 pound pack and just go lighter. That is all new technology/system since I've looked at packs.
I have a very expensive Warmlite (.com) tent - $500. I like it very much. It is going on 20 years old and I have used it a lot in almost all weather. It has held 5 people during a significant storm. It was very hard to shuffle the cards and nobody slept. It weighs just under 3 pounds and is a spacious two person tent. Considering the ample size and small weight, it has amortized well. It is my solo tent. It wasn't my first tent, however. We had previously made our own tents (3 of them) until the kids grew up and got hand-me-down tents. 4 decades of use so far (with replaced floors and rain cover).
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on Aug 28, 2015 10:30:51 GMT -8
With that, NEVER order a bag online unless you've already fitted it elsewhere, but keep in mind how important fit is to you. I suppose if you really only plan to wear the pack for a few hours a year, than fitting can be skipped if you can't test it out in person. I strongly disagree with the "NEVER". LOTS of people successfully buy packs online, especially experienced hikers buying from cottage companies like Six Moon, MLD, ULA, Gossamer Gear, etc. Many of these companies have the most innovative products out there for hikers who know what they want, and they're rarely available in stores to try on. Also, even for mainstream gear, as a woman hiker, I find that stores often don't stock the whole range of sizes, so while I can see and touch the pack, I can't always try on my size. But that definitely doesn't have to mean that I can't consider those products. Companies that rely on an online business generally have very good policies about returns and exchanges. There's really no reason why you can't get a pack that fits and works for you going the online route; it's a matter of planning ahead and dealing with a reputable seller. I use an ULA Circuit ordered unseen online. By the time it was over, Chris had sent me two different Circuits, an Ohm and two different hipbelts. I spent an extra $12 to ship everything I didn't want back. I'm super happy with it and don't see myself changing packs.
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