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Post by Lamebeaver on Jan 10, 2017 7:09:10 GMT -8
www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/what-a-real-debate-looks-like-in-climate-science/512444/Long article. There are many here, including GBH that know a lot more about this than I do and I'd appreciate hearing your opinions on this. Hopefully we can focus on the environmental aspect of the report, and not the political. I belong to the group that thinks the Golf Stream acts as a giant thermostat for our planet. If it gets too warm, the thermostat opens, the circulation stops, and a new ice age lowers the overall temperature.
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kenv
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Post by kenv on Jan 15, 2017 17:02:57 GMT -8
Its hard to say with certainty if the climate drives ocean currents or ocean currents drive climate. I personally tend to think the latter more than the former.
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Post by atvtuner on Jan 15, 2017 20:17:07 GMT -8
The two are inseparable aspects of the environment. Duh.
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BlueBear
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Post by BlueBear on Jan 16, 2017 6:54:47 GMT -8
Its hard to say with certainty if the climate drives ocean currents or ocean currents drive climate. I personally tend to think the latter more than the former. Ocean currents are a part of climate; it's most definitely both. If you believe climate affects winds, or if you believe climate affects ocean surface temperatures, then you believe climate affects ocean currents. Here, for instance, is a journal article (under paywall but you can read the abstract and get the gist of it) describing observations about the circumpolar Antarctic current strengthening in our warming climate. It's been caused by changes in the climate and--in turn--affects climate around Antarctica. www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v1/n12/full/ngeo362.htmlThe AMOC is a really interesting (and slightly terrifying) debate. More on that later, but I am being hammered with work right now and can't spend much time here. |
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ecocentric
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Post by ecocentric on Jan 16, 2017 16:17:12 GMT -8
I belong to the group that thinks the Golf Stream acts as a giant thermostat for our planet. If it gets too warm, the thermostat opens, the circulation stops, and a new ice age lowers the overall temperature. Greenhouse gases trap heat within the atmosphere. The atmosphere and the oceans have complex systems of circulation that exchange heat between one another. That circulation distributes heat unevenly. Changing the circulation will change the distribution of heat on the planet, but it does not change the amount of heat being trapped by greenhouse gases. |
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ecocentric
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Post by ecocentric on Jan 16, 2017 16:52:52 GMT -8
For a deep dive into the planetary circulation of materials, consider the circulation of the mantle, where convection is bringing heat generated by the decay of radioactive elements up to the crust. Ocean spreading brings magma to the surface, while subduction returns rock, water and gases to the mantle. The carbon cycle takes a dip into the lithosphere, where it remains long enough for all carbon 14 from the atmosphere and detritus of living things to decay to C12. Tectonic shifts in the continents alter ocean currents and wind patterns. When ocean currents are free to circulate to the poles, the climate is mild. Ice ages only occur when circulation to the poles is partially blocked by land masses. Lot's of things effect climate, but greenhouse gases are a fundamental driver of world wide climate.
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