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Post by rwtb123 on Dec 4, 2016 20:24:06 GMT -8
demons are munching on my... May I suggest laughing gas.May not reduce the swelling, but should help deal with the wise-cracks...
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Dec 5, 2016 8:22:23 GMT -8
I avoid NSAIDs if I can and only take them sparingly when I do. I know people who take them in excess, which can have long term and short term side effects. So if I need them, then yes. Otherwise I do all the other things a person should be doing and let the results come. I will admit I used to take NSAIDs like candy, but I have learned they do carry risk. Rumi This is absolutely true, and I am trying to reduce my use of them.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Dec 5, 2016 8:25:27 GMT -8
I might humbly suggest that if your regular activities require drugs to keep you from hurting, you're doing something wrong--either pushing it too hard or taking drugs when a placebo would work as well without the side effects. Well, a lot of it has to do with encroaching arthritis. Maybe that should trigger a reduction in some of these activities, but I'm not keen on the idea. Better flexibility training is probably the main thing I could do that would help for real, and I'm still scratching my head over why I'm so bad about that. By the way, I have read that ibuprofen actually slows recovery, though it does reduce the pain on the way. Flip a coin and pick your priorities...
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Dec 5, 2016 8:26:41 GMT -8
demons are munching on my... May I suggest laughing gas.May not reduce the swelling, but should help deal with the wise-cracks... I'm pretty sure that wise-cracks are a terminal case with me.
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markskor
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Mammoth Lakes & Tuolumne Meadows...living the dream
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Post by markskor on Dec 5, 2016 8:41:47 GMT -8
Here in California (where marijuana is now legal), medical MJ has been available for a while. You still must see a doctor to get a yearly medical prescription card, to then be able to purchase "medical" strains (only from established 420 shops)...seems that the MJ "recreational" selling infrastructure will not kick in until 2018...whatever.
Anyway, December is the time to renew my card...had one for years... just now re-upped. Process: Fill out a form online...pay $39 by CC...have a video conference with/ or see a real licensed doctor - explain to them reason why you need marijuana...if you pass/doctor agrees, a one-year card issued - sent in the mail.
While not stated in the same words, after reading this thread, I find that I actually used DOMS as my symptoms...(also mentioned night leg twitches)...all valid. These are the real pains encountered/ associated with my backpacking style. Sound familiar? Re DOMS, a little MJ/THC always helps me out sleeping...many have known this for years too. BTW, NFL players also have been advocating the benefits of MJ (smoking or topical oils?) for years - easing muscle pain sans drugs...works!
The doctor renewed my prescription.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Dec 5, 2016 9:17:08 GMT -8
I don't think it's just the pain, I think it cuts down the inflammation, and dramatically reduces the damage and the recovery time. I'd expect that to be true for severe cases, but would require proof that it's either necessary or appropriate for run-of-the-mill muscle soreness. If you're looking for a research study, Google can probably help. If you'll accept anecdotal evidence, here's what I've found: If I push myself hard the first day out and pop a couple blue pills with dinner, I wake up refreshed and ready to go the next morning. If I don't then I will wake up stiff and sore, and this feeling continues well after the drugs wear off.
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Post by mocamper on Dec 5, 2016 9:46:56 GMT -8
I've found the delay to be much shorter the older I get. :( But if one has trained properly for a given outdoor excursion, DOMS should not be a big problem on the trail. I use ibuprofen if necessary for recovery, and on the trail, it makes for a generally more pleasant experience in the wild to get over minor soreness. While training, I use stretching, foam rolling and other myofascial release techniques to alleviate the pain of DOMS. Icing sore muscles and using various icy hot creams also helps me when necessary.
Again, training and prior preparation are the key to avoiding excessive soreness on the trail. Training for eccentric movements is vital. I do air squats, lunges, jump lunges, jump squats, etc. as well as ruck running and ruck marching in my training. I use Mountain Athlete's Peak Bagger Training Plan before all my summer activities. This summer I did my longest backpacking/climbing trip and enjoyed it immensely because I was physically prepared for it. I began training about five months prior.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Dec 5, 2016 10:50:09 GMT -8
If you're looking for a research study, Google can probably help. If you'll accept anecdotal evidence, here's what I've found: If I push myself hard the first day out and pop a couple blue pills with dinner, I wake up refreshed and ready to go the next morning. If I don't then I will wake up stiff and sore, and this feeling continues well after the drugs wear off. As I stated before, I currently use NSAIDs whenever the situation calls for it. They are great for relieving the inflammation and the associated pain/ache. This is also true for other sorts of inflammation like sunburn, inflamed sores, tendinitis, etc. Two somewhat related issues I see surrounding the use of NSAIDs, over use and side effects. I know many people who take these as if they were candy. They take them at the trail head (or even before) and all during their hiking. I have seen this in other sports and activities like cycling, running, skiing, circuit training, etc.; so it is not just a hiking thing but widespread. And I was one of those kind of people that did that sort of thing. The reason I and others did that, in addition to the obvious reduction in soreness/inflammation, was because the side effects were deemed inconsequential. In many instances, this is the case. But often it is the case that the side effects are simply overlooked. One side effect of NSAIDs is irritation of the stomach and sometimes intestines. This is sometimes overlooked because when involved with strenuous backpacking a bit of upset tummy happens. When you are taking NSAIDs, it is hard to tell how much upset is because of the strenuous activity and how much is reaction to the NSAIDs. My personal anecdotal experience that the NSAIDs played a huge part in my tummy upset. It often caused me to eat less, sometimes much less. Which is more important to you, getting enough calories or feeling a bit sore? Another lesser known side effect is that all NSAIDs thin the blood. When I would visit Colorado for skiing, coming from a much lower elevation, this was a welcome side effect. It actually wasn't even a side effect, it was the purpose I took them. But in the event of an injury, the thinned blood did not clot well. I was with a friend who cut his finger and couldn't get the bleeding stopped because his blood was thinned from NSAID use. The dressing just slowly soaked with blood and he had to change it often. It was a mess just from a small cut. It could have been life threatening if he had a major cut. This is also the reason bruises can get really bad. A fall resulting in internal bleeding, well that might turn out very bad. Another side effect is just the long term use of NSAIDs may cause problems down the line with the liver and kidneys. They have been associated with greater risk for heart attacks, strokes, and heart-related deaths. NSAIDs are a useful arrow to have in your backpacking quiver, but I think caution and awareness is needed with their use. I do not suggest lamebeaver, rebeccad, or any others have ignored this or are promoting over use of NSAIDs. I bring it up because I used to over use them and have known many others to do the same. I know the attitude was that they were relatively risk free, and if one was good for you then two must be even better. Anyway, hope I haven't offended anyone. HYOH and all that stuff. Rumi
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Dec 5, 2016 11:20:44 GMT -8
Anybody have trouble with Delayed Onset Mental Stupidity? Anyone notice that the delay is getting shorter?
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Post by Lamebeaver on Dec 5, 2016 11:25:55 GMT -8
A few years ago, I pulled a muscle. It was serious enough I had to see a physical therapist. She gave me prescription strength Naproxen (1,100mg/day) and I voiced my concern about liver damage. The response I got was "You're only going to be taking them for two weeks so that isn't a concern." They also gave me some rubber band thingies, and some exercises to do, but I'm convinced that the drugs were most of the solution. More Info
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Dec 5, 2016 11:30:19 GMT -8
I don't think it's just the pain, I think it cuts down the inflammation, and dramatically reduces the damage and the recovery time. I'd expect that to be true for severe cases, but would require proof that it's either necessary or appropriate for run-of-the-mill muscle soreness. If you're looking for a research study, Google can probably help. If you'll accept anecdotal evidence, here's what I've found: If I push myself hard the first day out and pop a couple blue pills with dinner, I wake up refreshed and ready to go the next morning. If I don't then I will wake up stiff and sore, and this feeling continues well after the drugs wear off. I don't doubt that it makes you feel better. I was reacting mostly to the suggestion that it reduces damage and recovery time. I have my doubts that the "micro damage" that makes our muscles sore is really properly considered damage. It's how our bodies are supposed to work. I'm an advocate of letting my body do what it does as much as possible, saving medical interventions for the rare times when it's really necessary.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Dec 5, 2016 11:35:40 GMT -8
A few years ago, I pulled a muscle. It was serious enough I had to see a physical therapist. She gave me prescription strength Naproxen (1,100mg/day) and I voiced my concern about liver damage. The response I got was "You're only going to be taking them for two weeks so that isn't a concern." They also gave me some rubber band thingies, and some exercises to do, but I'm convinced that the drugs were most of the solution. More InfoI had a similar experience once when a tendon was so overused I could barely walk. Similar thing from the doc--high dosage Ibuprofen for a short time, to stop the inflammation from causing additional problems. This is the kind of rare thing where I'm okay with popping a few pills.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Dec 5, 2016 13:51:02 GMT -8
Side effects of Advil (ibuprofen)Here are a few of the common side effects reported: Abdominal pain acid or sour stomach belching bloating cloudy urine decrease in amount of urine decrease in urine output or decrease in urine-concentrating ability diarrhea difficulty having a bowel movement (stool) excess air or gas in stomach or intestines full feeling heartburn indigestion Notice how these resemble other symptoms of overexertion while backpacking. I would guess, and II'm not a doctor, that these side effects could exacerbate the other issues with over exertion when backpacking. And then you might end up chasing your tail trying to figure out what's the cause. That is why I wait till the need arrives before I take NSAIDs. My personal preference is aspirin. Rumi
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Post by Lamebeaver on Dec 5, 2016 14:19:52 GMT -8
Anybody have trouble with Delayed Onset Mental Stupidity? Chronic
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grace
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Post by grace on Dec 5, 2016 15:18:06 GMT -8
I gave up NSAIDS after reading Stacy Simm's book "ROAR", a comprehensive guide for female athletes. It's the first time anyone had told me to put down the NSAIDS. Best thing I've ever done for myself.
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