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Post by cheesecrackersalami on Nov 4, 2016 15:52:16 GMT -8
Hi all, thanks for your time -
Brief: I have a Kelty Cosmic Down bag (21 deg) and BA Q-Core SL pad (r-value: 4.5 ~15 deg) and I've been getting cold in high 30's to low 40's. There's a lot that goes into warmth, I know, but I shouldn't be having this problem with a 20 degree cushion. Am I calculating this wrong? Is it the gear? Tips? Thanks!
Background: In an effort to get my wife into backpacking I gave her my nice down bag to stay warm. I bought myself a new Kelty Cosmic Down and took it to Great Basin (beautiful little park, highly recommend), and I froze. I gave her my insulated pad but overlooked my own noninsulated one, my mistake. I bought a nice Big Agnes Q-Core SL and a few weeks ago in Yosemite in the high 30's, but probably low 40's, I was cold enough to affect my sleep. Luckily I brought my wife's down bag (wary this could happen) so I was warm enough. But still, I feel like a bag rated at 21 degrees, even with a comfort rating at 30, and an air pad with an r-value of 4.5 should be plenty sufficient (along with the standard long johns, pants, base layer, mid layer) to keep my body warm enough at 40 degrees. I'm a side sleeper and it felt like I was laying on a cold, albeit soft, counter top.
So where does this leave us: I am interested to get your illuminating feedback on potential causes and remedies. I tossed a bit of money into these items and would not like to be limited to only 45-50 degree nights, though they are fairly easy to find here in Southern California. I'm not drinking a ton of cold water before bed, I'm sleeping with layers on, using the mummy hood, all that. I just wonder what my next step should be as it starts to get colder, I don't want to stay away but I am reluctant to spend more on gear when I thought this stuff would do the job.
Thanks again for the time!
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Nov 4, 2016 16:15:30 GMT -8
A few things to consider. A damp floor or ground underneath being wet will wick away heat. So will solid surfaces like rock. Ice, is brutal in that regard.
The hood of your bag, your hydration level, general circulation all will affect your warmth.
Adding a cheap closed cell foam mattress (can be found for under $10) will greatly affect your warmth. It's surprising how just a bit more R-Value under you will add comfort.
The comfort rating of the bag is important of course and if your bag is to large for you, heating that extra volume will greatly affect your comfort/warmth.
Wearing a pair of down booties and/or a warm hat will go a long way alone. A pair of fleece pants/thermals...even more.
I use a +40F down bag in temperatures down to 0F. I do it by combining a bunch of tricks and such. Yes, you can be comfortable with your setup...with a few additions.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Nov 4, 2016 16:18:45 GMT -8
Get a better bag. Your Kelty is only rated to 30º for comfort. 600 fill down. Cheap, warm, light. Pick 2. If you want Warm & Light, it is going to cost upwards from $350, and that would be a good quilt with 850 down. 900 will be a bit more.
All that said, you could bring in a hot water bottle with you, eat something like a Snickers before hitting the sack, or wearing a better hat. Yep, a hat will help you stay warmer, by about 5º
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 16:36:09 GMT -8
Kelty Cosmic Down 20 bag It's the bag. I have a BA Q-Core Sl and when sleeping on the ground, no snow, it works real well when temps drop down past freezing.
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Post by cheesecrackersalami on Nov 4, 2016 16:42:25 GMT -8
Thanks for the replies! Looks like I'll try some tricks for now and start saving for a higher end bag. The foam pad addition sounds good, I have always avoided them as a side sleeper but since they are pretty light I'd be happy to strap it onto the pack if it boosts my warmth under my air mat.
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Post by dirthurts on Nov 4, 2016 17:04:47 GMT -8
I'm betting you're not drinking enough water, or you're not providing your body a good balance of sugars, carbs and fats. Make sure you go to bed hydrated and with a full belly, complete with fat. A snickers bar is a good bet if you don't know what to choose.
Did you calculate in elevation gain when considering your temperature? You'll loose about 3 1/2 degrees per every 1,000 feet you gain.
Also, you might just have a breezy tent. I find, contrary to the opinion of others, that the tent makes a big difference for me.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Nov 4, 2016 17:18:30 GMT -8
I have a BA Expedition 15 with an insulated air core pad. I ended up making a fleece sleeve that I slip over the air core pad, and it helps a lot. Most sleeping bags are over-rated, but YMMV.
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Post by mocs123 on Nov 4, 2016 18:15:24 GMT -8
I have no experience with the newer Big Agnes pads, but the Inulated Air Core pads were notoriously cold. I have found the Exped Downmats and Neoair XTherm to be very warm - down to 0*F or so.
Like you said, there are a lot of variables that can make you cold though.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Nov 4, 2016 18:49:41 GMT -8
As others have noted there are some critical non-gear factors that affect perceived cold. In my experience, the most imporatant are: - Hydration
- Calorie intake
- Fatigue
It's worth noting that greater calorie intake may not be very effective without proper hydration. Dehydration impairs digestion, so the calories you ingest don't get taken up and metabolized as quickly as you'd like. |
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daveg
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Post by daveg on Nov 4, 2016 20:51:15 GMT -8
I have the same problem but for a different reason. I'm a side sleeper with a true rated 25*F sleeping bag. But as I've gotten older I get cold more easily and now consider my bag to be a 35-40* bag. When I expect colder temps I take one of more of the following (depending upon how cold I expect it to get) -- down jacket, down long johns/pants, and CCF pad. I considered buying a warmer sleeping bag but figured that a down jacket and long johns would be more versatile (albeit heavier). I can wear them around camp to stay warm, then wear them to bed if needed or stuff whatever I don't need into my pillow stuff sack for more cushioning. Been comfortable down to 15*F doing this.
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Post by cheesecrackersalami on Nov 4, 2016 21:23:42 GMT -8
I have an open air bivy (doesn't close over my head) and that seems to help a little bit, so I'll just be the guy who sleeps in a bivy in a tent! This really active community has been great, I appreciate all the feedback guys.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on Nov 5, 2016 5:14:04 GMT -8
But as I've gotten older I get cold more easily and now consider my bag to be a 35-40* bag. When I expect colder temps I take one of more of the following (depending upon how cold I expect it to get) -- down jacket, down long johns/pants, That's a certified "Me Too!" I layer with lightweight and sometimes medium weight wool tops and bottoms. This is for two reasons, the 1st being not to transfer body sweat and stink to the interior of the bag, the 2nd for an additional warmth factor. My "cats meow" is a Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Xlite purchased two years ago. It brings comfort and a insulating bottom layer in a super-light and small configuration. Worth every penny of the $150 price tag. 850 down. 900 will be a bit more Zeke has a great point hear about down specification. Also as someone reminded me once, "Tighten the collar", no purchase necessary! |
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toejam
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Post by toejam on Nov 5, 2016 6:36:06 GMT -8
I wear wool socks, a balaclava, and sometimes thin gloves to help me sleep warmer in a sleeping bag.
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dice
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Post by dice on Nov 5, 2016 9:10:09 GMT -8
If I rembemer correctly the Q core has a fiberous (or down) insulation, my brother owns one and he blows it up with his mouth, getting water inside..that could be a potential factor. He complained about it being cold in the BWCA two years ago in october down to temps it's rated for (with correspondingly appropriate sleeping bag 30s) versus being comfortable the previous year with similarly cold conditions. This experience was shared by his two other co-workers also using a q core.
I avoid blowing up any air mats by mouth, I have a cheap 8 ounce plastic hand pump with a peice of plastic tubing that fits over the fill vlaves tightly on most mats..it's not the easiest but it's ambient temp air, so it wont deflate as much as the air temps change, and less water inside the mat retianing more of it's R value over it's life span, as it's unlike any moisture will leave a sleeping mat once it's entered unless it spends a lot of time open in desert type humidity.
also someone brought up hydration befor sleep, I find this super important for temperature regulation during sleep, even at home
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Post by ashepabst on Nov 5, 2016 11:13:15 GMT -8
do you bring a fresh set of clothes for sleeping?
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