crawford
Trail Wise!
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.--Edison
Posts: 1,775 
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Post by crawford on Sept 12, 2016 17:35:28 GMT -8
Had a great weekend getting 4 scouts and one other adult leader on a short part of the AT this past weekend as part of their preparation for Philmont. Got in late Friday, so only an hour hike to our excellent campsite in the vicinity of Eckville, just a few miles NE of Port Clinton here in Eastern PA. We had a challenging 8.5 miles on Saturday, 1000 ft incline in first mile then rough/rocky trail and 6 boulder fields over the next 7 miles all in hot and very humid temps. Not one of the boys complained, they motivated each other and really enjoyed themselves. They learned more about their gear and what they wished they had (as well as what they now know they didn't need). Couldn't have been happier with them. On Sunday we pushed out on a 5.5 mile hike and completed it in 2 hours. It was much smoother trail and they were able to keep a great pace. I'm willing to get these young men out on the trail any time.
The other adult, who is originally from CA, had never used a hammock when backpacking but decided to try a Grand Trunk Skeeter Beeter Pro Hammock on this run. On Saturday night he climbed in at 8:45 and didn't get out until almost 8:00 the next morning. He claimed it was the best nights sleep he had in a long time. Maybe I just helped make a new Hammock Packer.
My son and I made the trek a few weeks ago to check out the trail, ensure the springs were still flowing (not all were) and time parts of the trail. We did it in two days/one night. I really enjoy planning these treks, conducting the recon, and then getting the boys out. I especially like it when the trip goes this smoothly with no injuries and nothing but good attitudes. |
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Ed
Trail Wise!
Philmont Advisor and FOM (Fat Old Man)
Posts: 125
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Post by Ed on Sept 13, 2016 5:33:24 GMT -8
It's great you can get the kids out. Is this your first trip to Philmont? If so, the altitude will kick your butt. The more in shape your are on arrival, the more fun you'll have.
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crawford
Trail Wise!
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.--Edison
Posts: 1,775
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Post by crawford on Sept 13, 2016 10:26:45 GMT -8
It is our first. We are really looking forward to getting out there next summer. I've heard about the altitude. I haven't been above 7600 feet on the trail so this will be a new experience. We are trying to make some of our hikes a little rigorous in order to increase their fitness level (and ours). I'll take that advice and make sure I'm getting in shape.
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Post by absarokanaut on Sept 13, 2016 15:04:34 GMT -8
"Things they don't need?" I have several things in my pack I go years without using, but I'm not gonna go without them, EVER. When I was backpacking some of those arrogant gram counters begged me for stuff they "didn't need." I sure hope you folks aren't throwing the scout motto in the dumpster.
I love the Sangre de Cristos. Have an awesome time down there.
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crawford
Trail Wise!
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.--Edison
Posts: 1,775
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Post by crawford on Sept 14, 2016 3:40:12 GMT -8
absarokanaut I understand what you mean. No we aren't getting them away from being prepared, but rather having them evaluate all their equipment, its usefulness and its weight. We've talked about counting ounces and such, but I'm not a nut when it comes to cutting every gram possible. Sometimes what you carry is peace of mind (IMHO). Some bring much cooking gear that they neither need or use. Others brought a lot of extra clothing that is unnecessary. We are trying to create events that lead to experiential learning rather than just dictating packing lists to them. Thanks, and I really can't wait to get down there. The views are going to be amazing!
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Ed
Trail Wise!
Philmont Advisor and FOM (Fat Old Man)
Posts: 125
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Post by Ed on Sept 14, 2016 3:43:24 GMT -8
absarokanaut Philmont provides a fairly extensive gear list - broken down into personal (your own stuff), crew (gear to be used by the entire crew and brought with you), and Philmont-provided. That said, first-timers sometimes pack for their fears - expecially the adults. What if Johnny's whatever breaks, or "I MIGHT need whatever". Yes, I've carried things I haven't needed on treks, notable a first-aid kit, compass, a long base layer and other stuff. The point is that I could have (and in the past) have used them. Minimal gear, but sufficient gear. What I hate to see out there are the macho guys who think a 50 pound pack is a good thing. They're the ones who have the heart attacks and other problems. So, yes, "things they don't need" is an important part of the shakedown. The crew's Ranger will also do a gear shakedown before departure for the trailhead. Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as argumentative. I've been to Philmont a few times. I really do hate to see some of the heavy packs I've come across on the trail. crawford Don't get too used to the hammocks, you won't be able to use them at Philmont. One thing you may want to take advantage of is the PAW (Philmont Advisor Workshop) training. There is one held in Philadelphia in October. Sorry, the link doesn't work correctly - go to philmontscoutranch.org - Trek Preparation tab - Philmont Advisor Skill School. I do know a bit about Philmont and their procedures, some of which are a bit different from what we may do as a Troop. I'd be happy to go over anything you may have questions about.
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Post by starwalker on Sept 14, 2016 8:21:38 GMT -8
Philmont, takes me back to my college days when I got to work there, way back to the early 70's. We'd find KOMA out of Oklahoma City at night for our music fix, we'd go into Raton, or Taos on our days off, sometimes after doing some hiking on our own. Then, as I assume now, the most common cause of medical emergencies was heart attacks for advisors, but it sound like you spend time out on the trail. Enjoy.
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Ed
Trail Wise!
Philmont Advisor and FOM (Fat Old Man)
Posts: 125
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Post by Ed on Sept 14, 2016 9:23:08 GMT -8
Mostly, I'd say heart/blood pressure, altitude, and macho - "I love my 50 pound pack". I had one advisor who didn't put the effort into prep and had "altitude/asthma" problems. He went home on his own dime after two days. I'm glad he was on our other crew so he couldn't get access to the group ticket papers...
I'd continue doing treks if the mountains didn't keep growing and the air thinning out more each time. I'm getting too slow and don't want to slow the kids down any more.
I know Crawford is going to have a great time.
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Post by CompassRds on Sept 14, 2016 9:33:36 GMT -8
Also not being argumentative Ed , as I can throw some support behind both you and absarokanaut on this one. I have definitely run across the fat-guy-in-the-woods, a suburbanite-weekend-warrior who hasn't run in years but still slaps on a too-heavy pack 'cause “it’s only walking”. But, also it appears that like absarokanaut I have also run across, the exact opposite, a macho-minimalist, once too often. You likely know the type, the skinny athletic kid with ~0 fat on them who has gotten themselves into trouble 'cause they're ignorant (meaning completely uniformed as to the possible conditions) and think because they can marathon/ironman/ragnarok/etc. they're somehow immortal or immune to nature. Some I've run across (edit: really there haven't been that many, but enough, and they have all made an impression as they seemed totally unprepared):
-severe dehydration, slurring 'cause he hadn't had water in half-a-day and didn't pack in enough expecting an erratic spring to be flowing
-holding his shirt over a wound as he limped his way out 'cause he ran in with virtually no kit and slipped on a rock
-likely on the edge of hypothermia as she didn't expect that the weather would actually change and was out without sufficient layers |
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Ed
Trail Wise!
Philmont Advisor and FOM (Fat Old Man)
Posts: 125
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Post by Ed on Sept 14, 2016 10:00:12 GMT -8
I haven't seen the minimalist type at Philmont. I've done 8 treks there. This summer was my last as I'm getting too old to keep up with a group of kids. Considering that Philmont puts over 22,000 people through treks in 3 months on 214 sq miles of the Ranch ( plus I don't know how many more on adjacent properties they're allowed to use), the Rangers will likely NOT allow a minimalist crew (a crew is 7-12 people with at least 2 adults) on the trail. Philmont is rather rigid in it's thinking about gear and such. This isn't the AT, PCT or other trail. Their playground, their rules. Dehydration is always a concern since it's desert southwest and people do stupid stuff when in trouble. Philmont provides Guidebook to Adventure to everyone on a trek. Pages 18-23 give the equipment lists - personal/crew/Philmont. Each crew is assigned a Ranger for the first three days who will do a gear shakedown based on the Guidebook. The Ranger will also be with the crew for a couple days on the trail to "educate and assess", making sure the crew has the skills to survive their time on the trail. Sorry, I tend to get verbose at times... |
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Post by CompassRds on Sept 14, 2016 10:13:03 GMT -8
No worries. Have the same tendency to run verbose. I have definitely gone enough places where half my 50lb+ pack weight was necessary water. But then again I think we may have diverged, with you talking about Philmont's rigidly control environment, vs absarokanaut and I, who appeared to be talking more about experiences in the great "out-there". |
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Post by CompassRds on Sept 14, 2016 10:16:42 GMT -8
Also doesn't help for understanding that I started formulating a response while you appear to have been posting.
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crawford
Trail Wise!
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.--Edison
Posts: 1,775
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Post by crawford on Sept 14, 2016 10:33:37 GMT -8
Ed Yeah, I know about the hammock thing out at Philmont. This trip was just an opportunity to intro the other adult on the trip with the hammock. Our Philmont kids used Flashlight tents. Philmont does a pretty good job of having information available to ensure a smooth planning and preparation phase. I'm sure if I have questions come up I'll drop them on you. We are really hoping that we can get all our packs down to 28-30 lbs with water and food. It will be a bit of a challenge but we have time to work on it. Take care all
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Ed
Trail Wise!
Philmont Advisor and FOM (Fat Old Man)
Posts: 125
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Post by Ed on Sept 15, 2016 4:27:34 GMT -8
CompassRds Yeah, when I see Philmont in posts, I go into advisor mode. I've hiked a bit of the AT and realize the difference. I'd love to be able to get out for a few weeks, but there are some family issues. crawford mentioned it was their first Philmont trek. Again, it's advisor mode ON for me. There are some things that can be done to mitigate the "total newbie" that often shows up at Philmont. I do understand the rigidity that's necessary there. Crews show up who've never done any backpacking, loaded with gear (some still with tags on), and yet Philmont works it out and hopefully the kids have a good time. Fortunately, that doesn't happen often.
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