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Post by greeny on Aug 13, 2016 19:51:29 GMT -8
I couldn't join my wife & daughter on the 80-mile JMT segment from Duck Pass north to Tuolumne / Happy Isles. Primary filtering is with the Sawyer .2 micron 4L gravity bag. I tried to tell them to bring the SteriPen in case they were pulling water fro a lake, or even to bring the chlorine dioxide as a backup, but NO, my wife is an ardent Sierra Club hiker going back to teen years, so what do I know.
It sounds like they decided to pull water from Barney Lake or Duck Lake right before they joined the JMT northbound. And it sounds like my wife MAY have caught something from the water (obviously not a cyst or parasite -- they should've been caught by the .2 filter and also would've had a longer incubation period), but maybe a virus?
Are those lakes more likely to be a viral source than running streams?
I think the rest of the JMT north they can rely on running streams...
(doubtful its altitude -- they've been at 9,200+ for over five days, and heading downhill for a while)
Ouch.
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almostthere
Trail Wise!
putting on my hiking shoes....
Posts: 696
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Post by almostthere on Aug 13, 2016 20:31:49 GMT -8
There are not really viruses in the water sources. Bacteria and Protozoa, yes. Giardia and Crypto have a long incubation period... people who get sick on the trail generally have some lesser infection going on, perhaps tummy troubles related to a big change in diet, which happens when you go buy a bunch of cruddy freeze dried meals.... If there is not really horrible diarrhea and really bad gas and terrible stomach cramps, it's not a bad giardia infection. Altho, different people do react differently - a lab test would have to happen to confirm.
Lakes and streams are all the same water as each other -- streams come out of lakes, after all. There has been a theory that the top layers of water on a lake can be sterilized by the UV of the sun. However, no one's come up with a study to prove that... filtering, sterilizing with chemicals, or boiling still very much recommended especially along the JMT where pack animals and hundreds of people are stepping in, swimming in, sitting in, possibly sh***ing in, the water. No matter whether it is still or running.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 13, 2016 20:42:34 GMT -8
More likely an, ahem, "hygiene failure" by one of her food preparers either on trail or off. The cdc expects that's the source of a lot of hiker tummy issues. Otoh filters get damaged, or used wrong so who's to say. But yeah, "virus" is very low odds.
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Post by greeny on Aug 13, 2016 21:12:54 GMT -8
Yeah, both your theories sound more reasonable. I guess I was thinking viruses because of the extreme situation in Rio (super bacteria AND viruses). I think my wife & daughter are cooking exclusively from freeze dried meals (all purchased at REI). However, my daughter is a vegetarian, an I think my wife decided to go along with the 100% vegetarian pouch cooking -- might have been a shock to her system Nevertheless, on our two previous JMT segment hikes, we filtered and then used the SteriPen, which I have previously agreed might have been overkill -- but we never had any food / water born illness. I also cautioned them not to let an unfiltered water source contact a clean/filtered/sterilized container of water. But that's less likely with the way the Sawyer gravity system works (brilliantly, I think -- and very, very fast). Not sure where I read that it was always better to pull from a running stream -- I think that running water is more likely to get oxygenated, and running water is more likely to dilute any local concentration of bacteria that might collect in a still pool.
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almostthere
Trail Wise!
putting on my hiking shoes....
Posts: 696
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Post by almostthere on Aug 14, 2016 7:02:13 GMT -8
Not sure where you read it either, it's not true. What's oxygen got to do with anything? And since you need only a handful of Giardia to get sick (they multiply, didn't you know? that's what the long incubation period is about, all those single cells subdividing until there are enough to cause symptoms) the concentration of them is immaterial.
The SteriPen doesn't kill anything. It nukes the genetic material in single celled organisms. They die without reproducing. So you ingest live bacteria, but since they cannot make enough of themselves to hurt you, they pass through without symptoms developing.
You're more likely to get sick from water where there's more stock and more people.
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Post by greeny on Aug 14, 2016 21:23:07 GMT -8
I was thinking about Dissolved Oxygen (DO). water.usgs.gov/edu/dissolvedoxygen.htmlAnd while DO directly relates to the health of a body of water, it does not, in itself, lead to removing bacteria -- especially oxygen-loving bacteria -- from the water. I'm fairly certain the .1 micron filter on the Sawyer is good for the bacteria, protozoa, giardia, salmonella and cryptosporidia. I knew the SteriPen disrupted the genetic material. If I had done my homework (or had listened to High Sierra Fan), I would've read this great article by Robert W. Derlet: "Furthermore, no documented cases of viral acquired illnesses can be traced from drinking water from Sierra streams or lakes. Purification to kill viruses in most backcountry acres of the Sierra is not necessary." So is there absolutely no difference in pulling from a stream vs a lake?
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 14, 2016 23:43:29 GMT -8
Generally in the sierra the outlets of lakes are a better source of water than streams as the UV from the sun has killed most bugs. The exception would be if you find a spring coming out of the ground. Viruses are very rare/nonexistent in the sierra. Either way the filtration system you describe should be effective with either lake or stream water.
I would still recommend some chlorine tabs as a back up to any system if it fails.
edit: just scanned your link about dissolved oxygen. seems they are refering to stagnant water, which is pretty much a no no.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 15, 2016 0:05:21 GMT -8
However, my daughter is a vegetarian, an I think my wife decided to go along with the 100% vegetarian pouch cooking -- might have been a shock to her system You may have hit the nail on the head, along with altitude.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 15, 2016 18:38:08 GMT -8
I'll second a radical switch in diet can cause a few days of "adjustment". occasionally happens to me when heading out. Another reason I like a couple of days of front country camping to shake out such wrinkles before heading out.
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