amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Aug 2, 2016 4:19:31 GMT -8
We're going to do car camping with backpacks first then progress on to backcountry. This is my preferred method to break someone into backpacking. Let noobs learn what it takes to pull off a successful backcountry camp within comfortable reach of the car. That is to say bring only what you'd bring backcountry (e.g. no cooler full of food). In my opinion, an after-work start is not for newbies. Not sure I'd take newbies out into probable rain, though. That's another thing that can, er, dampen the enthusiasm. Those with the patience to coax newbies into the activity need to begin with that patience in the planning stage. IMO, the planning stage was overly ambitious. 4 miles, after work and after driving to the trailhead is too many. That is 2 hours hiking on a fairly level, good path. A good point. When I plan a trip -- often my assigned duty, which is then converted to navigation in the field -- even with my usual hiking pals, I only aim for 2-3km/hr. I know full well I can make much better time solo, but it's not only my trip anymore. I don't want to be the guy rushing everyone along and pushing folk to the edge of their patience simply because I can do better. No, but I've continued a couple trips I should have probably bailed on. You and I both, bud.
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Post by hangingtrekker on Aug 2, 2016 16:31:57 GMT -8
Thanks for the info and discussion. There are some good posts in here. I'm glad I'm not alone.
For a bit of an update - it was a 3 person group. Myself, a friend of mine, and his 16yr old son. The good news is they haven't stopped talking about the trip, even though things were "short". Maybe it will take some more "baby steps" to build up their comfort levels.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 2, 2016 20:21:34 GMT -8
He was either going to die of whining or I was going to have to kill him. This seemed kinder. Now that is funny! Still laughing. In all seriousness though, leaving someone less experienced behind it is not really a good idea. You don't know what they will do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 2:56:46 GMT -8
The good news is they haven't stopped talking about the trip... Maybe it will take some more "baby steps" to build up their comfort levels
Good to hear.
When I got my wife back into hiking I took her on increasingly difficult dayhikes to better and better views. Started small on our honeymoon with a 2 mile forest walk up the mountain above Balestrand. Years later and she is trying to get back into shape to do rim to rim at GCNP again before we have a second baby. Point is, she is ready to suffer a bit for the payoff, but had to work up to it.
Will she follow me back into backpacking? She hasn't due to the baby, but maybe in a few years she'll be ready.
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on Aug 4, 2016 2:47:11 GMT -8
He was either going to die of whining or I was going to have to kill him. This seemed kinder. Now that is funny! Still laughing. In all seriousness though, leaving someone less experienced behind it is not really a good idea. You don't know what they will do. I agree in a normal backpacking environment but we left him at a National Park backcountry "campground" with a ranger station and the ranger's the one who found us a campsite for him. Basically zero risk. Hasn't backpacked again though he'll car-camp.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Aug 4, 2016 20:52:46 GMT -8
Will she follow me back into backpacking? She hasn't due to the baby, but maybe in a few years she'll be ready. That one--backpacking with a baby/children--is a whole lot easier if you are already comfortable backpacking before having the kids. We didn't let it stop us, having 2 babies in 1.5 years, but we did have to throw some money at the problem for a while, and use packers to drop us in a basecamp. It was so exciting when we pulled off our first trip with no extra help at all, when the boys were 4 & 5 (they still couldn't carry much of anything, but they could walk 3 or 4 miles).
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 4, 2016 23:29:48 GMT -8
I agree in a normal backpacking environment but we left him at a National Park backcountry "campground" with a ranger station and the ranger's the one who found us a campsite for him. Basically zero risk. Still, you left him behind. Don't mean to be harsh, but to my thinking that is bad form.
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on Aug 5, 2016 3:37:24 GMT -8
I agree in a normal backpacking environment but we left him at a National Park backcountry "campground" with a ranger station and the ranger's the one who found us a campsite for him. Basically zero risk. Still, you left him behind. Don't mean to be harsh, but to my thinking that is bad form. I don't mean to belabor the point, but I disagree that it's automatically a "bad idea" or "bad form". I believe in making in decisions based on risk. The "stick together" rule isn't there for etiquette, it's to minimize risk. The rest of us staying back with him wasn't an option; this was a strictly permit-controlled hike. We cut off 4K feet of elevation for him, and made the next day's hike a 3K climb instead of a 5K climb.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 5:52:04 GMT -8
I agree with jazzmom. "Rules" (to the extent that we can call them that) have to be placed within the context of actual risk. Based upon her description, I don't see that she did anything to place the guy in risk. In fact, she may have lessened the risk for him and for others in her group. Other examples of guidelines that have been elevated out of proportion to actual risk are sayings like "Never wear cotton" or "Never hike alone." Each guideline has to be placed in context. They are not, in and of themselves, the final word on risk. There are circumstances where wearing cotton and hiking alone are appropriate.
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Post by Coolkat on Aug 5, 2016 8:01:37 GMT -8
I haven't had a newbie cause me to cut a trip short but I've come very very close. About 3 years ago I took someone who had heard me talking about backpacking and was interested. I had an extra tent, backpack, and stove to loan and he had supply the rest.
The first day we drive 7 hours then catch the 45 minute shuttle to the beginning of the trail and hike 7.5 miles to our first campsite. We picked our campsites a few yards away from each other and started setting up. As I was setting up my tent I kept looking over to see how he was doing, but every time I looked over he was just fiddling with his pack. I couldn't figure out what he was doing.
After getting my tent set up and other things all situated, I grabbed my food bag and stove (as I was hungry) and walked over to see what was going on. After about 30 seconds of questioning I find out he forgot the tent I loaned him. UGHHH!! What now??? Well, fortunately for us the night before I looked at the weather and saw that we were gonna get some nasty thunderstorms so at the last minute I changed out my tent for another one that I had that I trusted more in bad weather. And this tent happened to be a 2p tent and not a solo tent like I had originally packed.
One thing I'll say for him is that he was genuinely sorry and kept apologizing to the point I had to tell him to stop. Besides he had to put up my snoring. Which is why I almost always camp a long way away from everyone else.
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Post by ecocentric on Aug 5, 2016 8:08:31 GMT -8
It's hard to tell who is going to be a good backpacking companion and who is not, without trail experience. I try to make sure that newbies have realistic expectations, but newbies overestimate their own skills, strength/endurance, and comfort levels. I try to be democratic about the groups comfort levels. Everyone should feel like they have veto power if they get too far out of their comfort zone. I make that suggestion at or near the trailhead with the entire group and qualify the statement by telling them that anyone abusing their veto power probably wouldn't get invited on future trips.
As far as splitting a group up, so long as good judgement is used regarding the risks, a night or two of camping solo can save a hike when the group is getting tired of one another's company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 8:28:04 GMT -8
rebeccad , I think we are about to grow a side topic, but yes, this think that this is starting to play out as you predict, and I am not sure that my wife will follow me back into the hobby of backpacking. In fact, while I am comfortable, and the copilot and I have been making steady progress toward the step 1 I mentioned, another GCNP [now reduced to rim to river and back dayhike (Kiabab/Bight Angel this time)], my wife has occasionally been hesitant and has/is definitely thrown shade on the logistics of such.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 5, 2016 16:41:09 GMT -8
Guess it is a difference in philosophy. I would never leave someone behind.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Aug 5, 2016 18:55:01 GMT -8
Guess it is a difference in philosophy. I would never leave someone behind. I would not characterize what jazzmom did as leaving someone behind. Sounds like a well reasoned way to salvage everyone's good time (including the left-behind's) and reduce everyone's risk as well.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 5, 2016 22:09:46 GMT -8
I agree; I was not there and don't know the circumstances. It has just always been my philosophy that a party is only as strong as it's weakest member. If he was happy and comfortable staying alone in the ranger campground, no harm no foul.
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