gabby
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Post by gabby on Jul 31, 2016 12:28:37 GMT -8
I was looking at this post sometime this morning. There are so many facets to preparation that it's easy to miss many. Zeke's post is the best summary and has good advice. Making sure you're prepared means actually doing each part before committing to the whole enchilada. Take people on day hikes to judge their concept of "hiking distance".
The strangest thing about "mental preparation" is that everyone has different concepts about distance, physical preparedness, weight, etc., etc.. You'd think that we all pretty much agree on what "5 miles" means, but you'd be wrong. I've even gone on a one night with people who should have had some concept of all of those things I listed (runners), who obviously did not, once things got underway. It's positively amazing how, if you aren't doing some things on a regular basis, you simply don't know. I know people who think "a mile" is a very long distance to walk.
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Post by hangingtrekker on Jul 31, 2016 12:30:25 GMT -8
In my opinion, an after-work start is not for newbies. Just for clarification - we didn't leave directly after work, we had a night (short, but a night) in between. After work we finalized our packing then got up the next day. The drive/time to get there was about 7-8 hours, with fuel and lunch stop and last minute trail head preparations included in that 7-8. The time and the start, no doubt, contributed to the outcome, but it was what it was. Weather-wise - we didn't have a choice. We scheduled this months in advance. I knew that when we scheduled it. The weather was going to be a lot warmer also, so we lucked out and it cooled off a few days before the start of the trip (to mid 80's and still humid, but not mid-upper 90's with humidity).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 12:30:52 GMT -8
First things I notice are that you got off to a late start for an unexplained reason. Were you working that day? You say the rain was in the forecast and yet, with the late start, you could expect to be hiking in the dark. Not only that, you'd be setting up camp in the dark. And you are taking beginners, but you don't say how many.
In addition to the suggestions Zeke made, I'd add this. You needed to make clear from the beginning that there was a minimum arrival time for the trailhead and the start of the hike. Fail to meet those times, and the hike doesn't start until the next morning. So the big mistake was in not making that clear and not following that plan at the beginning of the hike.
Hiking in the dark in rain (which was in the forecast) is not for a group of beginners, or even for one beginner — unless he/she is highly disciplined at the very least. From the beginning of that hike, your account has fail written all over it. The outcome is not surprising at all to me.
That's not to say that I haven't made a few poor choices in my backpacking years. Looking back, I could say that about several trips I've made. You bite the bullet and chalk this up to your own poor planning. No use blaming a group of beginners for doing what is fairly well to be expected. But no, I'm not saying that you are blaming them.
For yourself, I'd suggest getting out by yourself at the very next opportunity. The group of beginners can decide for themselves if they want to take things seriously enough to do better the next time.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Jul 31, 2016 13:29:57 GMT -8
No, but I've continued a couple trips I should have probably bailed on.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 31, 2016 20:23:48 GMT -8
Beginners for the most part deserve an easy, daylight, out and back. In good weather. We get to sort out the intangibles and get things in place for later, more complex, trips.
Night backpacking, like night diving, seems to be an acquired taste once everything else has been sorted out. All that dark brings out the unsuspected claustrophobic in a lot of people.
But, no, never cut short from people bailing. Weather once or twice but not just an inexperienced person being unhappy.
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Deborah
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Post by Deborah on Aug 1, 2016 5:41:53 GMT -8
My very unscientific rule for planning group outings. Add 15 minutes per person for the drive estimate. Add 30 minutes per person to what the experienced hiker considers doable. If the weather looks dicey add another hour. As others have mentioned starting the hike the next morning would have been better.
It will go better the next time.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Aug 1, 2016 6:14:08 GMT -8
I have had several trips with beginners where we were cut short. It took me quite a few years of palming before I got trips toned down enough for beginners to enjoy. Those trips turned out to be less than two miles with dayhikes from a basecamp. Most were fair weather trips and away from standing water (dealing with bugs).
I've all but given up on beginner trips. I'll still occasionally do a few for my own kids and their friends but I personally prefer night hiking, extremely rough terrain, off-trail, snowshoeing, and storms...the exact opposite of what beginners want. Needless to say, these days I often hike alone. I love hiking with small groups (4 or less) and prefer leading or sharing the lead with one other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 8:16:40 GMT -8
It sounds like I may be lucky that all my recent attempts to get college friends back into backpacking have failed in the planning phase.
That said, I definitely been easing back into backpacking over the last couple years, after a decade plus off. Did a lot of gear assessment, research, and specific fitness first. I also tried to make my first outings as hassle free as possible with low challenge car camping, then day hiking in increasingly challenging terrain (and with increasingly weighted pack), actual backpacking in daylight with bale-out at most a few miles off at any point, before finally a hike to a campsite over 5 miles out.
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FamilySherpa
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Post by FamilySherpa on Aug 1, 2016 9:33:25 GMT -8
Plenty of trips have been cut short. Sometimes the kids miss home after a night or 2, and I don't ever want to make them dread backpacking or camping trips, so usually, as soon as they start mentioning how they might like to leave, we head out.
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Aug 1, 2016 11:20:04 GMT -8
Wow. Calling it quits after 4 miles, some darkness, and some rain? That's pretty lame, IMO. I have not met these people but I have a pretty poor impression of them.
I guess if there is any doubt, a good starting point would be to take these newbies on. 2-3 day hike. If that's OK, then a longer hike. Then try car camping a night or two, then an overnight backpack trip.
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Post by johntpenca on Aug 1, 2016 11:32:25 GMT -8
"They'd claimed some experience, but whined about stuff. Finished the trip, but dumped them." Funny! Can I whine now? Seriously, whiners are one of the reasons I go solo. I can be a whiner at times but at least there is no one around to hear it. Except when I'm climbing; then my partner has to hear it all.... It can get embarrassing. There was one time my friend and his brother were climbing at Suicide on a cold, windy day. I got to the crux and couldn't figure it out. I was whining like a little girl while my friend was freezing at the belay below. He was pissed. Finally got through it after about 30 minutes, but he read me the riot act when he got to the belay. Good times.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Aug 1, 2016 11:39:22 GMT -8
Don't feel badly. I bailed on an attempt to do the JMT on my first effort. Wasn't trained well enough, and too old to just grab the pack and hike. Of course, this was 6 nights into a 20 night trip. Sometimes, the Force just isn't with you.
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toejam
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Post by toejam on Aug 1, 2016 19:47:20 GMT -8
Backpacking isn't for everybody. Most of us suffered more than your buddies on our first trips and came back eager for more. I gave up trying to turn people into backpackers a long time ago, after discovering I could find real backpackers online who were up for adventure and didn't complain when things went sideways.
If you pals have the backpacker gene, they'll want to do it again and would do it without you. But most people aren't backpackers.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Aug 1, 2016 21:30:40 GMT -8
A trip with newbies is a success if you camped somewhere different than where you parked and everyone got home safely.
Bonus points awarded for doing any significant hiking and not damaging any relationships you care about.
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on Aug 2, 2016 3:42:34 GMT -8
I haven't had to bail on a hike but I have left someone at a mid-way camp on a out-and-back route and picked him up on the way back the next day. He was either going to die of whining or I was going to have to kill him. This seemed kinder.
I rarely backpack with newbies that I've invited and feel responsible for, and I wouldn't invite anyone unless I'd done some sort of activity with them and felt they were exceptionally un-whiny and never likely to panic. Activity doesn't have to be hiking. It's usually pretty easy to figure out who panics or whines.
If the point is to do something with a group who aren't backpackers, I usually stick to car-camping. I have a favorite car-camping spot that's about as rustic as you can get and still drive to it; the only concession is a dirt road and a fire pit. Camping without a toilet or running water has turned out to be a great litmus test of whether they really like sleeping outdoors as much as they say they do.
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