Deborah
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Yes, that's me.
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Post by Deborah on Jul 26, 2016 3:54:07 GMT -8
I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. We've had several threads about altitude sickness (AMS, Acute Mountain Sickness) over the years. What that means is that some people have never experienced an issue thus it does not exist. I have seen multiple threads over the years with the same attitude. To some people like that, those who caution about acclimating are "elitists" with a superior attitude. It has perplexed me for a very long time.
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Post by Coolkat on Jul 26, 2016 4:59:20 GMT -8
I find this whole discussion fascinating as this is one of my fears. Although it's a dream of mine to do some backpacking out west in real mountains. I'm very apprehensive of laying out the resources (read money here), taking time off work and etc. Only to drive out there and find out the trip is a flop because I can't do the hike due to altitude sickness and ruin the plans of other people in the hiking party. Especially if my car would be needed.
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toejam
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Hiking to raise awareness
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Post by toejam on Jul 26, 2016 5:00:56 GMT -8
Some people is me, because I live at sea level and would have no problem hiking to treeline this afternoon and summitting a 14er tomorrow. I wouldn't expect someone who lives at 5000' to understand. I have the physical fitness to do it and the experience to not hurt myself, and I've been doing it every year for 20-something years. I "experience the issue" every time and I know it's real. What is not real is people getting HAPE & HACE regularly below 15,000'. Verified cases are extremely rare. I've seen a few legit cases of altitude sickness and felt awful several times myself. But more often I see flatlanders show up in the mountains physically unprepared for hiking all day, become dehydrated and exhausted, and blame the altitude. They read all this stuff on the internet about AMS striking at random and symptoms that really only apply to much higher altitudes and it's a convenient excuse. People should expect the higher elevations of the Lower 48 to make them feel less than 100% for the first few days. After that they'll feel better, although they still won't be acclimated in medical terms. But most people won't really get AMS. Unless they belong to the facebook group - and then it's more likely psychosomatic or side effects from the diamox pushed on them. Had to go there!
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Post by courouge on Jul 26, 2016 5:09:20 GMT -8
Age. More and more things that used to work will not work after 50.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jul 26, 2016 5:12:38 GMT -8
Coolkat - I live at sea level. I've never had true altitude sickness, but I know that at around 7000ft I have some symptoms - ears hurt, stomach slightly upset. After a day or two (or more) at an altitude like that I feel better, and I can go - and stay - higher. There's a reason people don't camp on the top of mountains. They hike up to the summit, take a few pics, then come back down. It's not so much how high you go in a day but where you spend the night. If one night isn't too much higher than the previous night (3000ft or less), you'll probably be OK. I had Diamox in Bolivia (12-14000 every day and night), but never had to use it. I acclimated at 7800 for a few days, then went up. I had some mild symptoms in both locations. Truth be told, my biggest problem was coming down. My ears were so bad that I could barely hear anyone speak for a day or two. And they really really hurt. But everyone is different, and every trip is different. Your mileage will almost certainly vary. You need to experiment to find our what your body will typically tolerate, then be prepared for occasions when it decides to tolerate less. PG would be a good start.
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Post by cweston on Jul 26, 2016 5:59:22 GMT -8
I find this whole discussion fascinating as this is one of my fears. Although it's a dream of mine to do some backpacking out west in real mountains. I'm very apprehensive of laying out the resources (read money here), taking time off work and etc. Only to drive out there and find out the trip is a flop because I can't do the hike due to altitude sickness and ruin the plans of other people in the hiking party. Especially if my car would be needed. Don't let this scare you away. I could have been smart and allowed a day to acclimatize before the hike, but I didn't because I have done many trips before without doing so and never had more than a little queasiness for a couple days and reduced appetite. That's not a big deal. Altitude sickness was not the only reason we changed our route, although it was at the top of the list of small things that added up to making that decision. As Toejam says, serious illness due to altitude is pretty uncommon in the the lower 48.
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Post by cweston on Jul 26, 2016 6:08:16 GMT -8
Age. More and more things that used to work will not work after 50. Don't I know it :(
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mk
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North Texas
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Post by mk on Jul 26, 2016 6:20:05 GMT -8
I find this whole discussion fascinating as this is one of my fears. Although it's a dream of mine to do some backpacking out west in real mountains. I'm very apprehensive of laying out the resources (read money here), taking time off work and etc. Only to drive out there and find out the trip is a flop because I can't do the hike due to altitude sickness and ruin the plans of other people in the hiking party. Especially if my car would be needed. Don't let this scare you away. I second this! We just did a trip to CO last month and none of us really suffered. We did drive out and stay two nights in Durango before the backpacking part. And because we hiked into Chicago Basin, we gained altitude only as fast as we could walk up. I do get really tired at that altitude, although I felt good and slept well. A few years ago, however, we day hiked near Breckenridge and one of our group got really sick. The altitude change driving from Denver triggered a migraine, to which he was prone. He had his meds but they didn't help much. He sat out our first hike but tried to push through the pain and hike the second hike. He got to about 13,000 ft. before he let on that he was sick. And he only told us because he basically collapsed. He hiked down under his own power - but barely. My takeaway is prepare the best you can (I start hydrating several days before even leaving for the trip) and heed early warning signs. Nothing gets better by pushing through and going higher. Take your time and listen to your body. For me, any time in Colorado is wonderful -- even if it's not at the top of the mountain.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jul 26, 2016 6:32:33 GMT -8
Don't let this scare you away. +1
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jul 26, 2016 6:34:03 GMT -8
Age. More and more things that used to work will not work after 50. There is a fair amount of evidence that people tend to become more tolerant of altitude as they get older, but the variance is so large that there's no way to tell if you're one of the lucky ones or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 6:43:39 GMT -8
I've seen a few legit cases of altitude sickness and felt awful several times myself. . . People should expect the higher elevations of the Lower 48 to make them feel less than 100% for the first few days. After that they'll feel better, although they still won't be acclimated in medical terms. But most people won't really get AMS.You are contradicting yourself, Toejam. Despite the name "Acute" mountain sickness, AMS is the mild form of altitude sickness. You felt awful several times? That's AMS. People don't feel up to 100% at higher elevations? After a few days, they feel better? That's AMS. They are still not acclimated in medical terms? That's AMS. You are repeatedly claiming people are getting the symptoms, and then you are turning around and saying, "But most people won't really get AMS." AMS is the mild form of altitude sickness that includes the symptoms (however tolerable) that you describe in yourself and in people in general. If anything, what you and those people don't "get" is an understanding of what AMS is. And you evidently have been getting it with a lot of other people. What you are not "getting" (i.e. understanding) is what it is that you and other people got. Altude.org is written by medical specialists and researchers of altitude sickness. Here is what that site says: [/span][/ul] So whether those people are "only slightly affected" or "feel awful" due to higher elevations, it is still AMS. It is still altitude sickness. And it is quite common.
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Post by Coolkat on Jul 26, 2016 6:55:29 GMT -8
reuben cweston Thanks guys for the encouragement. I hear so much about hiking the mountains out west and I see all the pictures and movies like "Mile, Mile, and a Half" that I really want to give it a shot. I guess I won't know until I try. I guess my real fear behind this isn't symptoms but the fear of wasting resources and other people's time.
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Post by johntpenca on Jul 26, 2016 7:13:39 GMT -8
Just go and see what happens. If worse comes to worst, just descend. It's not that big a deal. Spending a day or two acclimatizing is a good idea. Try not to be too ambitious your first time. Climbers have a phrase "climb high, sleep low".
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Post by autumnmist on Jul 26, 2016 7:57:27 GMT -8
I find this whole discussion fascinating as this is one of my fears. Although it's a dream of mine to do some backpacking out west in real mountains. I'm very apprehensive of laying out the resources (read money here), taking time off work and etc. Only to drive out there and find out the trip is a flop because I can't do the hike due to altitude sickness and ruin the plans of other people in the hiking party. Especially if my car would be needed. Thank you for being so frank about your concerns. You've clarified and brought to life some anxieties I've felt as well. Age. More and more things that used to work will not work after 50. Soooo true! Add in a few things like inability to tolerate sun and heat, allergic rhinitis, a few episodes of idiopathic vertigo, mix well with old age and you have a recipe for concern. That's one of the reasons I like forests at lower levels.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jul 26, 2016 8:18:07 GMT -8
Just go and see what happens. If worse comes to worst, just descend. It's not that big a deal. Spending a day or two acclimatizing is a good idea. Try not to be too ambitious your first time. Climbers have a phrase "climb high, sleep low". Excellent advice. I find that even spending one night at 5 or 6000' before we hike up to higher Sierra elevations helps, but I can expect to have mild headaches. We try to keep first day mileage fairly low, though it can be tough--often you've got to do some real elevation to get up to where you can camp. There are also lower and higher trails and routes. We did a last-minute complete itinerary change one year because a member of our party was feeling pretty lousy just driving through Yosemite. We stayed below 10,000' and kept her just functional. I do know that other things going on in the body can make symptoms worse (or altitude can make other issues worse? Does it matter?). The sickest I've ever been combined a way-too-fast ascent with a too-heavy pack as I was starting my period--something that can make me sick all on its own. Not a good combo.
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