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Post by Lonewolf on May 1, 2016 4:04:39 GMT -8
Obviously from the Epipen thread.
I hike alone in grizzly country and don't leave itineraries.
Not leaving a plan is stupid to many.
Hiking alone is stupid to some.
Hiking in grizzly territory at all (even in a group) is stupid to a few.
None are to me and those who won't have an unreasonable fear.
What do you do that others might call "unreasonable fear"?
What do you do that others might call stupid?
It's going to be different for everyone.
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toejam
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Post by toejam on May 1, 2016 6:10:34 GMT -8
What do you do that others might call stupid? Backpacking There are a lot of unreasonable fears that are overcome with experience, eg., you can't tell a noob they don't have to worry about getting eaten by a bear while sleeping in a tent, because it happened to someone at some point in history. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 6:50:26 GMT -8
My opinion of another persons fear may be that I find their fear unreasonable but to that person their fear is sound.
For instance, I have a fear of being arrested and put in jail and of having to spend time in a jail. My fear stems from reading about jail and of hearing stories from people who have spent time in jail.
On the other hand, I know, from working with homeless people, that there are those who get arrested in the fall. The homeless know which crime to commit that will allow them to spend the winter and early spring in jail. In jail they get a warm bed, food, medical care, and even get to watch TV.
I am sure the homeless would consider my fear of jail to be unreasonable. I consider my fear to be sound.
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Post by hikerjer on May 1, 2016 7:27:30 GMT -8
Interesting question. What strikes me is how your, at least my, concerns or fears, whatever you choose to call them, change, maybe even escalate, with time. For instance, when I was younger, I never concerned myself with leaving an itinerary. After all, what could possibly go wrong? Now I always leave one, even on short day hikes. Is that fear or just being reasonably cautious? Also, I never ever worried about bears, even in grizzly country, and took very few steps to minimize contact with them. Now, while I wouldn't say I'm fearful of them, I'm very aware that I'm sharing the same territory with them and do think about them when I'm in their country, particularly at night - you know, the proverbial noise in the dark. Now, I always follow basic bear precautions. However, my greatest unwarranted fear, is that something will happen to one of my children. Completely found less and unwarranted, other than we live in a dangerous world. For instance, last summer when my youngest son took a cross country bicycle trip, I worried about him all the time. Foolish I know, since I've done similar things and know the risk is minimum, but still the fear was there. But in spite of their repeated assurances that I have nothing to worry about them, I do. This may all be a function of age, but still things are different now. So, these days I do have more worries, concerns, fears, whatever - realistic or not. And I worry about having them.
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RumiDude
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Marmota olympus
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Post by RumiDude on May 1, 2016 9:38:13 GMT -8
Unreasonable fear is fear which is not based upon reason. It is as simple as that. The fear is real, but it is unreasonable. Many people have a fear of flying in planes and jets yet not of riding around in an automobile. That fear, though real is unreasonable because riding in a plane is much safer than riding in an automobile. And this also highlights the opposite of unreasonable fear which is unreasonable confidence or overconfidence. The most dangerous thing a person can do around their home is to climb a ladder, even just a step ladder. Most people do it all the time without respecting the danger. Many parents have fears about stranger abducting their children and thus will not let their children out of their sight for any length of time. But this fear is unreasonable or irrational. The fear is real, but it is irrational. So, these days I do have more worries, concerns, fears, whatever - realistic or not. And I worry about having them. I think I am right there with you. I can remember several years ago when my two boys were maybe 12 and 14, I let them go out on their own at the local ski slope. We had arranged to meet for lunch at 1pm or so. When they did not show up, I started to worry. I imagined all sorts of scenarios where they were lost, injured, in a tree well, etc. 45, then 75 minutes passed and I was in near panic. I began getting ready to go look for them. By the time I got my gear on and out of the lodge it was an hour and a half past the agreed upon time and they came walking up as I was snapping into my bindings. I just burst out in tears. I knew it was unreasonable to fear anything, but ... Rumi |
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Post by hikerjer on May 1, 2016 9:49:48 GMT -8
Funny, now that my kids are grown and gone, I worry about them more than when they were home. We were never parents that didn't let our kids walk to school or ride their bikes to the store or wander in general, within reason of course. But you know the saying, "little kids, little worries. Big kids, big worries". I think part of it lies in that when they're young, you have a certain degree of control over them. Not so much when they're older. Just part of life, I know. But that doesn't make it any easier.
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Post by Lamebeaver on May 1, 2016 10:13:25 GMT -8
Unreasonable fear is fear which is not based upon reason. It is as simple as that. The fear is real, but it is unreasonable. Many people have a fear of flying in planes and jets yet not of riding around in an automobile. That fear, though real is unreasonable because riding in a plane is much safer than riding in an automobile. And this also highlights the opposite of unreasonable fear which is unreasonable confidence or overconfidence. The most dangerous thing a person can do around their home is to climb a ladder, even just a step ladder. Most people do it all the time without respecting the danger. ^This. |
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Post by immadman on May 1, 2016 13:03:49 GMT -8
What is reasonable or unreasonable, rational or irrational, it will typically differ from one person to another. Preparations that one makes to allay or mitigate a situation is, to some, merely precaution; to others, it is unreasonable or irrational fear.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on May 1, 2016 13:15:29 GMT -8
I think Rumi said it well. But it does seem like there are areas where it can be a judgement call. Maybe that is just a question of risk tolerance, though there is also a lot of fear caused by an inability to conduct a good risk assessment (thus the parents who have a greater fear of their child being snatched than of her getting diabetes from never being allowed to walk anywhere).
My unreasonable fears I see as more in the line of phobias. I have a lot of fear of heights/exposure. This is not unreasonable in one sense--I am only scared when a fall carries a reasonable chance of serious injury or death. But it's unreasonable because I lose my ability to gauge the chance of falling, and focus only on the consequences, which my fertile imagination paints in full color. And they are truly unreasonable because some part of my mind KNOWS that the actual risk is very low and I still wig out.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on May 1, 2016 13:54:33 GMT -8
I think I am right there with you. I can remember several years ago when my two boys were maybe 12 and 14, I let them go out on their own at the local ski slope. We had arranged to meet for lunch at 1pm or so. When they did not show up, I started to worry. I imagined all sorts of scenarios where they were lost, injured, in a tree well, etc. 45, then 75 minutes passed and I was in near panic. I began getting ready to go look for them. By the time I got my gear on and out of the lodge it was an hour and a half past the agreed upon time and they came walking up as I was snapping into my bindings. I just burst out in tears. I knew it was unreasonable to fear anything, but ... Funny, now that my kids are grown and gone, I worry about them more than when they were home. We were never parents that didn't let our kids walk to school or ride their bikes to the store or wander in general, within reason of course. But you know the saying, "little kids, little worries. Big kids, big worries". I think part of it lies in that when they're young, you have a certain degree of control over them. Not so much when they're older. Just part of life, I know. But that doesn't make it any easier. I hear you guys: whenever my wife has to drive to Oklahoma on business (her company doesn't buy plane tickets anymore - they've been deemed too expensive), I tend to worry a lot. But I have to take the attitude that I believe I first heard in AA philosophy, or maybe it was this guy (Wayne Dyer):  One of my favorite Buddhist parables is relevant (maybe) - the idea is that you simply take what comes and deal with it in an appropriate way, including danger - even including false charges (one version): "Once upon a time, in a village in Japan was living a reputable Buddhist monk. Next to him lived a family of wealthy merchants who had a beautiful daughter.
One day, like a bolt out of the blue, her parents discovered that she was pregnant. Her father was very angry and pressed her to tell who the father of the child was. At first, she wouldn't tell, but eventually she confessed that he was their neighbor, the Buddhist monk.
The merchant went at once to the Buddhist monk. "Ah, so desu ka? (Oh, really?)" was all that the monk said to his angry neighbor.
When the child was born, the merchants gave him to the monk to take care of him, and they told everybody the story of their unfortunate daughter and of the two-faced monk.
The monk had nobody to leave the baby with, and so he carried him everywhere he went. All the villagers who previously had regarded the monk highly were now calling him an immoral man, but he didn't care; he was raising the child with utmost care.
One year passed.
One day, the child mother's just couldn't bear it any more; she confessed her parents she had lied about the child's father: he was a young man working in the fish market, not their neighbor.
They all went at once to the monk to apologize and get the baby back, telling him the truth. "Ah, so desu ka? (Oh, really?)" was all that the monk said, returning them the child."The Titi Tudorancea Library - "Oh, Really?"Edit: And, of course, I'm not at all this "cool under fire" - I too find myself worrying, whether necessarily or not, a lot of the time. I have to remind myself of the above to deal with it and continue living my life, regardless of circumstances. I try, anyway. |
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daveg
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Post by daveg on May 1, 2016 20:32:12 GMT -8
What do you do that others might call "unreasonable fear"? What do you do that others might call stupid? It's going to be different for everyone. Given all the fears and differences of opinion among people, I'm not surprised at some of the concerns some people have expressed about some of the things I do. Only a very few people, mind you, and I wouldn't characterize their view as thinking I'm doing something "stupid." "Unreasonable" might even be too much. Just more along the lines of worry for my health and safety (with the subtext that I should change my behavior) because I:
-- hike solo. -- eat red meat. -- don't carry a concealed weapon. -- sail my boat singlehanded. -- use water bottles that contain BPA. -- use fluoride toothpaste.
No one has ever mentioned what I consider to be the most dangerous thing I do on a regular basis -- driving a motor vehicle.
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balzaccom
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Post by balzaccom on May 1, 2016 20:52:22 GMT -8
Hi Dave
I do, or did, all of those things, too. Had to sell the sailboat, though.
On the other hand, in terms of unreasonable fears, I'm not sure where the handgun falls. Is it unreasonable to leave it behind? Crime and animal attack statistics would say that those who carry are the ones who have unreasonable fears.
And you can thank me for the firestorm that is certain to follow...
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Post by hikerjer on May 1, 2016 22:31:14 GMT -8
No one has ever mentioned what I consider to be the most dangerous thing I do on a regular basis -- driving a motor vehicle. You're right on that one. There have been numerous posts in the past, usually in relation to people's fear of bears, in which it was stated the greatest danger on most backpack trips is driving to the trailhead, just as you pointed out. |
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Post by atvtuner on May 2, 2016 10:34:26 GMT -8
Some say fearlessness is unreasonable.
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on May 2, 2016 12:56:47 GMT -8
I only fear that my last day will surprise me and I won't have the opportunity to tell everyone what I think of them without reproach.
That, and heights.
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