RumiDude
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Marmota olympus
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Post by RumiDude on Apr 10, 2016 9:19:08 GMT -8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 10:34:41 GMT -8
I think any navigational technique that focuses on looking down instead of out at the landscape has limitations. That could include GPS, maps and compass, and even a wildlife trail. When I focus on a gadget in my hand, I often neglect the landscape, the lay of the land.
In a kind of best-use scenario, a person might combine several methods, but when a GPS unit so conveniently provides a track or way-points, it's too tempting to focus down on that route and not notice surroundings — landscape, landmarks, general topography, vegetation, sun, moon, or stars, and the broader perspective of a larger topo map.
Just as we are urged to not become dependent on GPS to the exclusion of map and compass, the same principle may apply even to map and compass. The purpose of a topo map is to aid perspective on the landscape, but not to replace that landscape as a tool of navigation. It's best to be aware of surroundings from sky to ground etc and not get an isolated focus on one element of navigation to the exclusion of the larger picture.
I rarely use GPS, but I find it gives me an uncanny ability to adhere to a route. So I become preoccupied with a small screen and fail to often to look up and notice my surroundings. To be fair, I've done something quite similar with a very natural thing like a wildlife trail, only to discover that the critters of the backcountry aren't always going my way.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Apr 10, 2016 11:29:26 GMT -8
For motorized travel, I prefer to understand what route the GPS suggests, but to navigate it myself. I don't always adhere to that, which is how I discovered that merely following the audio instructions leaves too little mental record of where I've been. When I found that I couldn't repeat a route by memory that I'd done three or four times by GPS, I started using it differently.
On the trail, I use GPS mainly for spot checks a couple times a day, or to mark points of interest (my car, water sources, campsite). Walking the landscape burns in so much stronger route-finding memory that even coming back to a place after ten years, I can feel whether I'm on track or not and have a sense for what landmarks to find. I don't feel like it's even possible to look at a GPS enough to prevent forming that intimacy because of the slow rate of travel, but perhaps it subconsciously dilutes the need to remember.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Apr 10, 2016 11:42:54 GMT -8
I use a GPS while kayaking, to aid me in navigation. Most of those mangrove islands look alike from the waterline. I also use one when navigating in my car, as I am not always familiar with this town yet. I muted that one, because I hate the voice telling me to turn, or that I missed a turn because I am choosing to go a different route.
Oddly enough, I have yet to use it hiking, but could see advantages if used sparingly. Confirm I haven't passed up that nice campsite I found online, or that the supposed water source is just ahead.
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Post by Lonewolf on Apr 10, 2016 12:17:08 GMT -8
I also use one when navigating in my car, as I ma not always familiar with this town yet. I now have a nice handheld GPS now that covers virtually everything with roads, trails, property boundaries, topo lines, etc. I don't use it. I spent almost 20 years traveling all over N. America with just a paper road map and never had a problem. The one time I did I was following verbal directions.* I'm much better given an address and I'll find it myself. One knack I acquired over the years was if I've been to a place once, no matter what size the city, I can always find my way to it again even years later. *Which brings up an offtopic question: The directions given were to follow X road into town and not make any turns, very much emphasized. I came upon a traffic light where the main road turned left while there was a road straight ahead. I went straight and got lost. I backtracked and eventually found the place and told the guy his directions sucked. He insisted that "Don't make any turns" meant follow the main road. Not to me because he should have said "follow the main road" if that was what he meant. How would you guys have interpreted such a direction?
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Apr 10, 2016 12:26:24 GMT -8
I would've gone straight, like you did.
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Post by ecocentric on Apr 10, 2016 13:03:23 GMT -8
I've just returned from a long road trip with a directionally challenged travel companion. Almost every time that I napped in the passenger seat I awoke to incorrect terrain, even when the route was simply to follow a particular highway. Some people just don't see well enough to read road signs, but more significant is their inability to have a map in their head. I love the 3D models you see in National Park interpretive centers, because they help to visualize the terrain. I don't care what other tools you have, map, compass, gps, or some kind of homing beacon. Having a 3D model in your head helps to understand how to get there. A GPS is great on a dark night, especially on an unfamiliar road, but it's only real strength is knowing pretty precisely where you are. Sure, you should practice your triangulation, but honestly, line of sight can be a problem when locating yourself on a 2D map. In the Boundary Waters or the Everglades, the flat terrain limits your ability to triangulate, and in the Pacific Northwest it is the dense forest canopy. I embrace my Homo habilis origins; use every tool available, but be mindful in the process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 13:30:01 GMT -8
He insisted that "Don't make any turns" meant follow the main road. Not to me because he should have said "follow the main road" if that was what he meant. How would you guys have interpreted such a direction? I've been told the same thing and did what you did and got a similar response later. Been there, done that.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Apr 10, 2016 13:46:38 GMT -8
I think Travis said it best...
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Post by Lonewolf on Apr 10, 2016 14:09:12 GMT -8
a directionally challenged travel companion I have a SIL who cannot go 2 blocks or repeat a route without getting lost. She once took the kids to the next town over, not even 30 minutes straight down the interstate and went the wrong direction when she started home. She drove for more than 2 hours(??) before deciding something was wrong....
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Apr 10, 2016 15:08:42 GMT -8
He insisted that "Don't make any turns" meant follow the main road. Not to me because he should have said "follow the main road" if that was what he meant. How would you guys have interpreted such a direction? I've been told the same thing and did what you did and got a similar response later. Been there, done that. It's the classic "turn left to go straight". Closely related to little stretch of "turn west to go east". I've done it right and wrong every possible way. Sometimes checking ahead of time reveals the truth. Sometimes I don't figure it out until the buildings grow sparse and turn from businesses to barns.
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Post by ecocentric on Apr 10, 2016 16:01:31 GMT -8
Google Maps helps to clarify the subject. I generally insist on someone showing me on the map, how to get there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 16:37:24 GMT -8
For most of my hiking life, I've used just map & compass, and the lay of the land. About 4 years ago I bought a GPS and started fooling around with it. Liked it. Started using it more and more until one day last year I put my usual rechargeable batteries in it without checking the charge. Ran out half way through the first day of a 3 day trip.Checked the pack and realized I left the replacements in the car. Fortunately I always bring a map and compass as well, and 'rediscovered' the joys of using them. In the process, I was surprised how much I had grown to depend on the GPS, even though I also had topos out and with me wherever I was going. Point is, Yes I think we can become too dependent on them, and will use mine to primarily track where I've been. From now on, It'll be my map & compass as my main navigation tools.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Apr 10, 2016 16:44:09 GMT -8
And previously people got too dependent on the sophisticated tech derived topographic map: satellites, computerized digital aerial photogrammetry. and then a wind gust blows the sheet away or the whiteout drops the horizon to two feet. And there you are without a paddle.
The reason The Mountaineers ten essentials, aside from no longer being 10, are systems not items: too much fetishizing is bad for you. Paper, plastic or silicon.
As for me? Still like my topo (digital or woven plastic) plus altimeter along with my eyes.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Apr 10, 2016 19:09:09 GMT -8
No GPS. I am a fan of maps, though I can count on probably one finger the times I've needed the compass to go with (that's mostly a reflection of the terrain I prefer and a tendency to use trails).
In the car, what I like is the maps we can bring up on the cell phone, which show much smaller roads than are on our highway maps. That can be very helpful when you decide to take an alternative route. We have the topo map books for most of the states we travel in, but not all, and we don't tend to take them when, say, heading to Mom's for Xmas. After all, we know the way up I5. But there was that time when the pass was closed, and the time there'd been an accident and the freeway was a parking lot...
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