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Post by vanderloo on Mar 19, 2016 16:01:48 GMT -8
I ran across MotionX GPS phone app which is only available for Iphones. It looks like the perfect app but I have an Android. What's everyone using for GPS tracking out there? The reason I favored Motionx is because it can apparently guide you in even when there's no mobile connectivity available. Which I would consider a must since we rarely have mobile connectivity in the wilderness. Thank You
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Mar 19, 2016 16:17:34 GMT -8
GAIA has an Android version iirc and allows for caching map sections ahead of time. For myself I use a GPS handheld: standard replaceable batteries which means my phone is available for when I'm out of the backcountry. www.gaiagps.com/apps/android/eTA: Granted for day hiking and just exploring the tech possibilities a phone app is an affordable entry point. Bigger screen too. Lol going from my iPhone 6s Plus to my 60csx I can't help but squint at the teensy screen. For overall nav I prefer my map sheets, better than looking through that tiny keyhole of a GPS screen. To me anyway. for particular national parks there can also be specific map apps. Earthrover has converted some of the Tom Harrison maps to phone apps. Not detailed enough for on the ground navigation in my opinion but they're great for dreaming/planning what with their provided mileages between junctions etc. tomharrisonmaps.comThe NPS has also started getting into the app game.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Mar 19, 2016 16:27:34 GMT -8
I am another who uses a GPS for the field, and saves my phone for when I am in the front country. Letting people know I am out is more important to me.
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almostthere
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putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on Mar 19, 2016 16:29:13 GMT -8
Map and compass are more reliable than any electronics. Here's hoping you don't forget them. Batteries can be wacky.
When I do use a GPS, I take a real one. I reviewed the Viewranger app and found it to be very like a real GPS, but the maps can fill up the memory of a phone quickly. And running the phone all day for tracking results in an incomplete track, if you don't have a spare phone battery or a charger cell to juice up the phone for the second, third, fourth, fifth days...
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Mar 19, 2016 17:06:52 GMT -8
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Post by Lonewolf on Mar 19, 2016 17:23:17 GMT -8
Forget using your phone for a GPS function because while a kind of neat app, it's still a gimmick that I wouldn't trust. Get a real GPS and maps loaded for your area plus mechanical compass and paper map. Map and compass are more reliable than any electronics. Here's hoping you don't forget them. The company puts up health and safety notices and last spring a flyer went up on safe camping. It mentioned GPS loaded with local maps and such but completely failed to mention a compass and paper maps. I brought that to the attention of the health manager and she said "No one uses those anymore!". Uh... yup. Time to call out SAR....
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almostthere
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putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on Mar 19, 2016 17:57:42 GMT -8
Search and Rescue uses maps and compasses to double-check what the GPS gives them. EVERY TIME.
A GPS is a tool to be used WITH a map and compass.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Mar 19, 2016 22:07:27 GMT -8
I do nothing but off-trail hiking. I use Gaia (Have for years now). I use it combo with a map and compass. Mainly, I use it for coordinates. A map and compass may be "more reliable" but I have found there are times for a GPS (Whiteout conditions, fog, in deep woods). They both have their place. I have found my smartphone with Gaia to work very well out in the field. When I navigate, I use maps. I like being able to see miles around with full detail so I can plan my route as I use the natural landscape as a trail.
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almostthere
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putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on Mar 20, 2016 6:52:50 GMT -8
Meanwhile, in Kings Canyon, helicopter had to pick a group of backpackers off a ledge, after they got cliffed out, after they tried to navigate through a blizzard with a GPS back to their truck and got stuck there for three days unable to set up a tent or anything. This was years ago.
On a search for a lost boy four GPS units sent four SAR searchers in two separate directions with a single coordinate entered -- or would have, without the map to double check, and verify which direction they were actually supposed to go -- of course they caught the idea that one direction was wrong. The map let them determine which one, because we all know what to do with UTM coordinates and maps.
These things only work until one day they don't. Without a map, without map skills, do you know how to determine when a GPS is wrong? Nope. Of course, we who are looking for the helicopter landing zone have a more urgent need to be exacting, but, long delays wandering in the wilderness can trigger massive wastes of taxpayer dollars. You know those as search and rescue operations looking for lost, wandering people who eventually walk themselves out, because their planning failed them somehow and they were delayed.
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Post by Lonewolf on Mar 20, 2016 9:52:03 GMT -8
How many times have we heard of people dying in vehicles because they trusted the GPS was right and went where they shouldn't if they'd had any sense? The same can happen with a handheld. we who are looking for the helicopter landing zone have a more urgent need to be exacting, The GPS navigation systems in aircraft can run $20,000 for a low-end system. $100K and up for commercial airlines. Just a tad bit more accurate than a $200 handheld. I flew a small 4 seater that had a $125K system. I could easily takeoff and fly with it and did for instrument flight and supposedly even land although I never had the nerve to try landing.
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almostthere
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putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on Mar 20, 2016 11:44:20 GMT -8
we who are looking for the helicopter landing zone have a more urgent need to be exacting, The GPS navigation systems in aircraft can run $20,000 for a low-end system. $100K and up for commercial airlines. Just a tad bit more accurate than a $200 handheld. I flew a small 4 seater that had a $125K system. I could easily takeoff and fly with it and did for instrument flight and supposedly even land although I never had the nerve to try landing. You are misinterpreting -- SAR is routinely dropped off and picked up by helicopters, and then left on our own to search on foot. Radios are sporadically working. If you are on foot and given coordinates you had better be right the FIRST TIME you navigate your way over there, or you stand a chance of missing your ride, and it may be a three day hike back to your car with whatever you have left of your food. Since some volunteers are burning up vacation time, or unpaid leave, while they are on searches, this becomes a matter of keeping your job. Not everyone in SAR gets infinite amounts of time to do the work.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Mar 20, 2016 13:37:00 GMT -8
Comes down to what you'd like to do with the stuff, like with a lot of hiking related gear. The reality is it's not either or: map reading skills are still necessary for using a gps display since once past the very basic units where you only get a digital readout of the utm coordinates what the gps units offer is a position caret ON a topographic map display. How you go from "here" to anywhere else is the very same mapping route decision making as on paper: just that you can zoom in and out.
Car gps units and smartphone map apps give detailed directions because cars and urban pedestrians are restricted to mappable roadways: hikers aren't and so as almosthere recounted a strictly has generated "direction" is just going to be the result of answering the basic question of in which compass direction another point is: not whether that suggested direction is passable to a hiker (rivers, cliffs, unfordable lakes).
Iirc some gps units running their own vector maps where trails ARE designated like roadways will route you along trail systems when that function is enabled, but that's a very specific set of units and circumstances. In general topographic interpretation is still a necessary part of gps navigation. Those benefit of hiker gps is as tigger noted the establishment of a current position is acheivsble under conditions which render a compass useless: restricted visibility such as dense cover, darkness, white outs and heavy ground fog amongst others: then with no visibility to distant known terrain features there's no using the compass to establish cross bearings. Making that map approaching.pointless (there's always some hope of "laying" the surrounding visible topography onto the map for a position fix, but that depends on being able to see enough terrain to get a feel for where you are which isn't happening in darkness, blizzards or fog.. In daylight in the Sierra and that's what I routinely use above timberline with a little help from my analog altimeter).
The other benefit of gps for those that like that sort of thing, like people who're entertained by their geotagged photos, is the ability to record the days hike track and once home upload it to a mapping program to see where you were, how far you travelled, elevation gain/loss, how long etc. like what we get off our bike computers. Paper maps and compasses don't offer that.
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dh024
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Post by dh024 on Mar 21, 2016 16:37:15 GMT -8
Best Android mapping app out there? I have tried most of them and like Backcountry Navigator the most. Why? You can download your trail maps, topo maps, and route and store them on your phone. You can also add satellite imagery, landowner layers, points of interest (handy for finding distances along the trail to an important feature), and other very useful digital information. And it is all super convenient to use, ESPECIALLY if you already know how to read a map.
Caveats: I still carry a paper map and small compass, but I can't remember the last time I pulled them out - the phone comes along anyways, and it is just so much handier to break out and use. While I think the reliability of phone-based gps is often unfairy criticized, it's just not smart to ever rely on just one form of navigation aid (same applies to a paper map, IMO).
Full disclosure: I teach geospatial technologies, including gps and GPS backcountry navigation, at a major university, so my comfort level with technology is very high.
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Post by vanderloo on Mar 23, 2016 10:10:21 GMT -8
I took a map/compass navigation class last night at REI. Very helpful and cheap. Honestly though, I think you can find unlimited resources online for navigation. Local classes are cool though cause you're able to hang out with like minded people and network a bit.
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Mar 23, 2016 11:01:54 GMT -8
I'm map and compass literate. I like to plan my routes and follow along with them on the paper map.
The only thing I would want a GPS for is providing my current position and to point to my destination coordinates. I don't need a map on the GPS unit itself, I have a paper one with me all the time. Just give me a small device with a present-coordinate readout and a big arrow pointing to my destination. Even just the latter. I can figure out the rest.
Otherwise I'm back to looking for monuments and landmarks, triangulating where needed, and taking bearings. *sigh*
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