ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 29, 2024 14:41:15 GMT -8
I did a search and didn't find a thread on lightning. Some incidental talk when incidents have happened. So maybe one is a good idea.
The reason for this right now is I just read this article (warning: Limited paywall. Backpacker/Outside)
I've always questioned either standing on a pad or the lightning position. To me if lightning just jumped thousands of resistant feet of air, a few inches of crouching or pad probably isn't going to do much. Maybe help you manage panic via placebo effect. I like the article's suggestion to just keep going to somewhere safer.
I have gotten out of my tent and stood in the rain during bad lightning. Somewhere downhill in the trees. Where I set up my tent seemed like a good spot with a good view earlier. Not so much when a lightning front rolls through.
Now since I hammock camp I haven't yet figured out my lightning policies. Theoretically a dry hammock hung not to close to the ground probably won't have issues as long as one of your trees aren't extra tall.
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Post by cweston on Jun 29, 2024 17:14:04 GMT -8
I’ll just get this out of the way…Get off my lawn!
I’m amazed at how unconcerned many hikers seem to be about lightning. It’s the hazard I worry about the most in the high country, by a pretty wide margin. I’m quite conservative about ever getting caught in a dangerously exposed location after noon during the monsoon season in the Rockies. I think about lightning when selecting camps, etc.
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Post by georgeofthej on Jun 29, 2024 18:57:51 GMT -8
I would be cautious and camp or hike in the safest areas if thunderstorms were rolling in, but I'm not really sure where the safest areas are all of the time. Of course, we want to get down off of a mountaintop, but lightning strikes the sides of mountains too. I question some of the conventional advice for lightning safety and would love to see more studies done on staying safe.
Once on a trip in Yosemite, there were thunderstorms every day for 5 days. I set up my tent away from the bases of trees, thinking this would be safer from lightning. The only problem was that the spaces between the trees were depressions, so, when it rained like crazy one afternoon, my tent was in a puddle.
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Post by georgeofthej on Jun 29, 2024 19:06:06 GMT -8
Good article, Ernie. Thanks for the link.
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Travis
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Post by Travis on Jun 29, 2024 20:02:32 GMT -8
Not to be disagreeable, but I do not consider it a good article at all. It is not the safety measures the writer suggests that I take issue with. It is the attitude she displays from the title and down through the article.
The title of the article reads, "Everything Hikers Know About Lightning Safety is Wrong." That statement is just plain asinine. Most of the safety measures she announces have been known since she was a grade-schooler playing with frogs in the woods instead of actually studying up on lightning safety as considered at that time.
She has basically stereotyped all other hikers as ignorant before she, still the youngster, arrives to enlighten them. What has she written that is actually new?
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 29, 2024 21:40:22 GMT -8
Lightning is a unpredictable thing. My worst lightning experience was in the Hudson Valley in Aug. years ago. I was crossing a long ridge. I had some little view to the north. It looked like a storm far away but it was kind of an optical illusion. It was actually a close dark wall of pouring rain under intense thunderheads. When I realized I pretty much ran to find a place to get down off the ridge top and into a grove of trees. The best place I could get to. Then serious lightning came. I was standing there looking at a dead tree about 50 yards away. It was just 25' of trunk and shorter than the nearby trees. Then a giant bolt hit it. Even that far away I got a good ground shock. The boom hit me in the chest like a hammer. Splinters of wood had whizzed through the air. Then the smell of burnt wood and strong ozone hit my nose and my brain screamed RUN! But there was no where to go. I had to stand there for another 1/2 hour while lightning continued to hit all around me.
For several years thunder would freak me out. I have mostly gotten over it.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 29, 2024 22:05:54 GMT -8
I found this about lightning fatalities in the US. The numbers are surprisingly small given the time period. Another reason to be careful of Florida.
Also %90 of lightning victims survive so multiple the above numbers by 9 to get approximate number injured.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 29, 2024 22:20:47 GMT -8
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driftwoody
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Lightning
Jun 30, 2024 4:39:29 GMT -8
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Post by driftwoody on Jun 30, 2024 4:39:29 GMT -8
I found this about lightning fatalities in the US. The numbers are surprisingly small given the time period. Another reason to be careful of Florida.
Also %90 of lightning victims survive so multiple the above numbers by 9 to get approximate number injured.
Those numbers by state do not accurately convey the risk factor as a percent of the numbers of people in harm's way. For example, how many folks are at high altitude in Idaho in the afternoon? Colorado's numbers are much higher because the mountainous hiking trails have a lot more people on them.
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Post by oldbill on Jun 30, 2024 4:42:02 GMT -8
Good topic and discussion. I don't agree with the opinion that there's no such thing as "accidentally caught" in a storm. Forecasts, particularly in the backcountry, are not accurate. While I always keep an eye on the sky, it can be sky blue at the start of a big pass ascent and be storming before the descent is complete.
Thought I saw some advice to head for snow fields if one does get caught in the open. Interesting to read about caves being a no-go.
Got caught in a T-storm in the Winds while crossing an big open meadow. Just kept on going as fast as I could to hit tree line. This year I plan to be well above tree line for days but there's plenty of peaks around. Have to rely on Garmin forecasts past day 2 and reset plan for the highest parts of the route.
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Jun 30, 2024 5:05:00 GMT -8
There’s also the season. Summertime often sees storms roll over the countryside collecting charge which eventually gets discharged as lightning. So the frequency means I’m usually not in the Southwest/southern Rockies.
Before altering my hiking calendar to reflect the monsoon, I’d often be caught outside with lightning.
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Post by cweston on Jun 30, 2024 5:19:18 GMT -8
I like how he article assumes that everyone always has access to current weather forecast data. Kind of funny that a Backpacker article seemingly forgets that on the 6th day of a BPing trip, one probably does not have access to that information.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jun 30, 2024 6:29:22 GMT -8
I’m kind of with Travis, though I get it—the headline is meant to grab readers in a click-bait world. I don’t think she told me anything new, but there may well be younger readers who need to see it (and these days I think the mag is really aimed at younger readers… I stopped reading when they started talking about fashion and looking good in the backcountry). I learned about caves not being safe when I was a child, admittedly along with learning the last-ditch “lightning position,” which I have long assumed was just an easier reach to kiss your ass goodbye. Being off the summits and ridges by two is more to the point among the received wisdom of my youth.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 30, 2024 6:54:58 GMT -8
Interesting to read about caves being a no-go. I was going to post that caves are particularly bad around here because of the iron ore veins. But then I thought, given the lead article of this thread, I better check that. So from what I read only shallow caves and caves entrances are a problem. It looks like cave entrances may get hit more than the area around them due to various atmospheric effects at the mouth but no hard data about that. Just caver anecdotal like a guy getting hit measuring the entrance with a metal tape measure. A lot more stories of lightning hitting their basecamps outside the caves. But the cavers seem to agree that once you are into a cave enough lightning isn't a problem.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Jun 30, 2024 7:05:35 GMT -8
The single most important thing to know is to keep your feet together. Touch the ground in only one small spot.
Something like 40-50% of lightning deaths are from ground currents. The difference in potential from one foot to the other at "parade rest" is more than enough to kill you. So keep your feet together and don't lie down.
Only 3-5% of deaths are from direct strikes, so don't worry so much about crouching low, especially if it hinders keeping your feet together.
And I agree with the sentiments above about getting surprised. Backpackers rarely have sufficient recent forecast info to avoid getting caught. You can avoid the peaks and passes in the afternoons, but beyond that, it's not unlikely that you'll get surprised once in a while. When you do...keep your feet together.
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