|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 9, 2023 13:06:35 GMT -8
“ Arches announces another pilot vehicle reservation system using timed entry in 2024! Visitors can book reservations on a first-come first-served basis starting 1/2/24. Read the full news release: nps.gov/arch/learn/new… More info about the program: go.nps.gov/ArchesTicket. “ Thoughts? The one thing I’m not fond of are theses first come first served rush the server scrambles. Other places have found lotteries for blocks of dates to be functional. x.com/archesnps/status/1722721249028186282?s=46Park details: Monthly blocks, some day before. br] www.nps.gov/arch/learn/news/news11092023.htm
|
|
|
Post by absarokanaut on Nov 9, 2023 14:05:23 GMT -8
I am not a fan of charging for visitation at all but $2 can be handled by most with vehicles. We're not gonna reinvent civilization any time soon so managing the masses is important. Sadly I could see this coming to our Grand Teton but I like how you have to get going early to get parking at Jenny and String Lakes. What we really need is a shuttle from town, maybe Moose if they expanded parking there.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 9, 2023 14:15:18 GMT -8
Reservation dot gov has a contract with the park service to get paid for their operational costs for provided services. That’s what the $2 goes towards. That’s on top of the entrance fee they, and another 117 out of the over 400 park units charge. With either flat or declining budgets from Congress parks that don’t have an entrance fee to help with their maintenance have very bad choices to make. www.nps.gov/arch/planyourvisit/basicinfo.htm
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,709
|
Post by rebeccad on Nov 9, 2023 20:24:10 GMT -8
So does that mean that even if you want to go in before it’s light (our usual approach) you’ll need a reservation? Or are they closing the gates so you can’t go in at all in time to get the morning light?
Obviously being at the campground is optimal, but not usually possible.
|
|
|
Post by hikinggods on Nov 9, 2023 20:43:01 GMT -8
We were just there a few days ago. Our approach: Wait until Nov. 1st (when timed entry stops) and pray for good weather. We were lucky and it was very nice. I may be wrong, but I believe that you can go in without a reservation if you get there REALLY early.
|
|
GaliWalker
Trail Wise!
Have camera, will use.
Posts: 3,717
|
Post by GaliWalker on Nov 10, 2023 8:31:40 GMT -8
So does that mean that even if you want to go in before it’s light (our usual approach) you’ll need a reservation? Or are they closing the gates so you can’t go in at all in time to get the morning light? If this works like the setup they trialed in Glacier National Park this year, then you should be able to enter with out a vehicle reservation outside the timed-entry slot.
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 10, 2023 10:14:05 GMT -8
The one thing I’m not fond of are theses first come first served rush the server scrambles. Dumb question…I was at Arches a month ago, and had to use the “last minute” next-day reservation system. Scored my pass no problem. So…you have to physically be within 12 hours or so away from the park to utilize this. That should dramatically reduce the number of applicants, right? And how many people would risk the expense of traveling to Moab to see Arches, if there was a good chance they couldn’t get in? I was traveling across the country, so it was worth the risk for me…but wouldn’t this reduce the number of applicants further? It’s kind of hard for me to see where these server problems would come from…I must be misunderstanding something.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 10, 2023 10:18:28 GMT -8
@sleepingbagman Yes, you’ve missed there’s two parts to the system. That day before application opportunity and then the other main one where a month at a time are opened for reservation all at once three months in advance. Better than the entire season but still. www.nps.gov/arch/learn/news/news11092023.htm“ Program parameters will be the same as the 2023 pilot. Visitors can book reservations on a first-come first-served basis through Recreation.gov beginning at 8 a.m. MST on January 2, 2024. Reservations will be released three months in advance in monthly blocks. For example, on January 2, reservations will open for the month of April. On February 1, reservations will open for the month of May and unreserved times in April will remain open. Additional months will continue the same pattern according to the following schedule: April reservations (April 1–30) open January 2 at 8 a.m. MST. May reservations (May 1–31) open February 1 at 8 a.m. MST. June reservations (June 1–30) open March 1 at 8 a.m. MST. July reservations (July 1–31) open April 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. August reservations (August 1–31) open May 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. September reservations (September 1–30) open June 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. October reservations (October 1–31) open July 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. ”
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 10, 2023 10:22:30 GMT -8
Limited number day before: “ For those without early reservations, a limited number of additional tickets will be released at 7 p.m. MDT each day for park visits the following day. Tickets must be booked online or by calling Recreation.gov before entering the park and will not be available at the park entrance. Tickets book up quickly, especially for morning arrival times, so visitors are encouraged to plan ahead. Timed entry tickets will not be required for those with camping permits, backcountry permits, Fiery Furnace permits or tour tickets, special use permits, concessions contracts, or commercial use authorizations.”
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 10, 2023 11:04:24 GMT -8
April reservations (April 1–30) open January 2 at 8 a.m. MST. May reservations (May 1–31) open February 1 at 8 a.m. MST. June reservations (June 1–30) open March 1 at 8 a.m. MST. July reservations (July 1–31) open April 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. August reservations (August 1–31) open May 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. September reservations (September 1–30) open June 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. October reservations (October 1–31) open July 1 at 8 a.m. MDT. Hmmm...OK...so there's enough people scrambling for these one-month-at-a-time releases to bog down a web server? Regardless of whether we think FCFS is better or worse than a lottery...that sounds like a solvable tech issue. Even at its worst, NPS reservation traffic could only be a tiny fraction of people rushing to post photos of their breakfast, stream cat videos, or watch porn. My other observation is that if demand for Arches is so high, the supply of Arches should be expanded. I saw plenty of unused land around the park, where more Arches could be built.
|
|
BigLoad
Trail Wise!
Pancakes!
Posts: 12,994
|
Post by BigLoad on Nov 10, 2023 11:58:58 GMT -8
My other observation is that if demand for Arches is so high, the supply of Arches should be expanded. I saw plenty of unused land around the park, where more Arches could be built.
This is the real problem. The arches themselves grab the attention of travelers from around the world disproportionate to how interesting they are. Yes, they are beautiful and interesting, but I don't think enough to explain the dramatic difference in visitation with someplace like Petrified Forest, which only gets 1/3 of the annual visitation of Arches.
ETA: Petrified Forest also has some decent ruins and spectacular petroglyphs.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 10, 2023 12:08:25 GMT -8
Arches previous process was, interesting. They simply initiated a “ one in for one out” entry system at the closed gates once the parking capacity was reached.
That’s actually easy to do these days with modern tech: counters at the parking lots tallying in and out and send that data out to wherever. My local mall has had that in place in their parking structure for a long time where right at the entrance, and at each floor, the available open spaces are electronically displayed on signage. In any park with multiple lots that sort of information could save a LOT of useless road traffic orbiting. And the hardware couldn’t cost much, some light beam car counters and such.
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Nov 10, 2023 13:14:53 GMT -8
This is the real problem. The arches themselves grab the attention of travelers from around the world disproportionate to how interesting they are. Yes, they are beautiful and interesting, but I don't think enough to explain the dramatic difference in visitation with someplace like Petrified Forest, which only gets 1/3 of the annual visitation of Arches. The people have spoken, and they want Arches. So I say we expand Arches, in a way that draws the common peasantry & hoi polloi away from the real natural attraction. Arches Xtreme!- Designed by George Lucas, based on the desert scenery from Star Wars: The Phantom Menace- Zipline course that goes through multiple arches - Dirt bike/dune buggy course that goes over & through multiple arches - Arches for rock climbers, that you can rappel down - Arches with holographic portals that you walk through & there are fantasy worlds constructed on the other side (travel to the future, the past, or to some other planet!) - Build-an-Arch stations where kids could design their own arches & they would be built to full scale by 3D printers - Every night there's a fireworks show or animatronic dinosaur fight...several arches get blown up or demolished...but they're designed to be reassembled before sunrise.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 10, 2023 13:45:42 GMT -8
Arches-land on the Las Vegas strip
|
|
BigLoad
Trail Wise!
Pancakes!
Posts: 12,994
|
Post by BigLoad on Nov 10, 2023 14:07:19 GMT -8
This is the real problem. The arches themselves grab the attention of travelers from around the world disproportionate to how interesting they are. Yes, they are beautiful and interesting, but I don't think enough to explain the dramatic difference in visitation with someplace like Petrified Forest, which only gets 1/3 of the annual visitation of Arches. The people have spoken, and they want Arches. So I say we expand Arches, in a way that draws the common peasantry & hoi polloi away from the real natural attraction. Arches Xtreme!- Designed by George Lucas, based on the desert scenery from Star Wars: The Phantom Menace- Zipline course that goes through multiple arches - Dirt bike/dune buggy course that goes over & through multiple arches - Arches for rock climbers, with that you can rappel down - Arches with holographic portals that you walk through & there are fantasy worlds constructed on the other side (travel to the future, the past, or to some other planet!) - Build-an-Arch stations where kids could design their own arches & they would be built to full scale by 3D printers - Every night there's a fireworks show, or fake battle, or animatronic dinosaur fight...several arches get blown up or demolished...but they're designed to be reassembled before sunrise.
You missed the easiest one: make the arches golden!
|
|