jazzmom
Trail Wise!
a.k.a. TigerFan
Posts: 3,064
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Post by jazzmom on May 28, 2023 8:19:03 GMT -8
Cottage simply means small, not some magic code for higher morals. OK, well, I think you're insisting on pursuing an argument that I don't think anyone else is having. I don't think anybody is being xenophobic or denigrating anyone -- the opposite, in fact. (And, really, I don't think we're not as naive as you seem to think about "cute labels", online reviews and FB ads.) The Backpacker article is about the emergence of cottage gear companies in China -- the same principles as cottage companies here -- and that their products are catching international interest, initially because of their prices but increasingly by their quality/functionality. (But if you think there's no value in being a cottage company, then the point is probably moot.) I happen to like COTTAGE gear companies because my experience is that they evolved out of someone solving the problem I'm trying to solve, and I usually get to communicate directly with the person who has firsthand knowledge about the design/materials/production of that solution. When I was first looking into Tarptent and emailed in a question, it was Henry Shires who answered and gave me the background of the design, e.g., how the dimensions and angles had been chosen. And when I bought my ULA Circuit and and had doubts about the fit, it was the owner (Chris, at the time) who talked to me on the phone, asked me to send him pictures and then shipped me an Ohm, a different size Circuit and another hipbelt size, to see which combination fit me best. I found Katharina Pierini through OutdoorTrailGear and she made me two hats, super light and sized exactly for me. I have two beta version Outsaks from what came to be Outdoor Solutions. When I invested in my first Feathered Friends sleeping bag years ago, I was able to order one sized for my height and build, when very few gear items were available in shorter lengths. I could go on for a long time.
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gabby
Trail Wise!
Posts: 4,539
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Post by gabby on May 28, 2023 13:51:58 GMT -8
The Lanshan 1, Lanshan 2 and the single wall "Pro" models are very popular in Britain lately. Reliability depends on weather.
Everything else is more-or-less irrelevant.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 29, 2023 6:35:48 GMT -8
Cottage simply means small, not some magic code for higher morals. OK, well, I think you're insisting on pursuing an argument that I don't think anyone else is having. I was responding to your post quoting me. While the OP specifically brought up “principals. Leaping to concern over Chinese garlic? Sure, just a random example. 😎😎😎
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 29, 2023 6:52:53 GMT -8
High Sierra Fan I think you are painting with a broad brush. Darn Tough socks, UGQ, Enlightened Equipment, WarBonnet hammocks, Arrowhead Equipment, Dutchware, Jacks R Better, 2QZQ, and many other cottage shops that we patronize have yet to ship any of their jobs out of the US, and have a clean record with the labor code. I’ll stand by this. “The point being reading past a label is necessary to see the facts whether it’s a “made in U. S. A. “, “made in China” or “cottage” in an internet review, recommendation or FB ad. Those businesses are solid because of who they are, not their label ” So those examples are past the label to the reality of those individual businesses. One valuable function of groups such as this one I’d offer. Opinions from people who, often, we’ve had the privilege of reading their opinions etc in other matters so they’re more verified (or not) than the wider anonymous internet. There’s that saying: trust but verify. Which is all my comment is about: not taking the label itself as definitive of anything. Blindly asking is an item made in Montana or Vietnam isn’t going to be informative imho. The people running the company is able to set the force from wherever a source is located, for good or ill. Mystery Ranch lays it out fairly well. www.mysteryranch.com/contactAt the bottom of the faq: for some reason the site no longer likes the format of my screenshots.
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jazzmom
Trail Wise!
a.k.a. TigerFan
Posts: 3,064
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Post by jazzmom on May 29, 2023 12:40:30 GMT -8
OK, well, I think you're insisting on pursuing an argument that I don't think anyone else is having. I was responding to your post quoting me. While the OP specifically brought up “principals. Leaping to concern over Chinese garlic? Sure, just a random example. 😎😎😎 Honestly, I said nothing about "morals", just that I like the way cottage companies operate. You have a very different definition and operational model of what a cottage company is. My point was that the source of the materials is often not considered. China is the biggest supplier of peeled garlic, which is something most people don't realize (or think about) and most restaurants provision garlic in this way. I used that example because it's something I know about firsthand. I could have used Mexican avocados, possibly grapes for wine, and probably textiles but, to be honest, I only know what I read/hear in the news.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 29, 2023 17:35:59 GMT -8
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 29, 2023 17:39:56 GMT -8
“Morals”, as “principals” was in the original post to which I originally was directing my reply. And which concept I’m quite skeptical of.
The OP “Would you never buy it base on principle(s)?”
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Jun 3, 2023 8:22:20 GMT -8
I admittedly have been using one of the products mentioned in the article below. .. I'm curious as to peoples thoughts about this kind of gear. Would you never buy it base on principle(s)? Maybe you don't care so long as it gets people outside? Or maybe at $130 you'd naturally think it can't be good and just ignore it? www.backpacker.com/gear/chinese-ultralight-backpacking-gear/Well there’s principles of using small batch gear made domestically and then there’s the added principle of simply not trusting big corporations regardless of where they are. At a certain point, more MBAs get involved causing quality to go down while often price goes up. Just to hire more MBAs to sell kwap products harder. With the true cottage gear sellers, I can usually do a minor special customization in early winter and be assured of quality work. When small, don’t want a situation where multiple verified customers are giving trashy reviews. A big corp probably couldn’t care less (then again giant Thermarest gives good customer service on sleeping pads). Now 3F started as a cottage company but has probably grown (same w/US gear maker Six Moons btw … so no real xenophobia here). I’d have to evaluate on design, probably taking a close look at stitching, etc.. Of course there’s advanced manufacturing like Patagonia and others using some sort of “laser-welds”, etc.. It’ll come down to reputation and then the “feel” of said gear, honestly, … along with inherent design limitations (e.g. any single wall shelter design will gather more condensation regardless). Then there’s materials. Been using recycled fabric like Ultra and Ultraweave for more than a couple years now w/my packs. Also Z-packs is offering shelters in bio-based DCF (“cuben fiber”). More use recycled sil-poly which is a lot better than virgin sil-nylon.
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