reuben
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Post by reuben on Feb 13, 2016 14:49:13 GMT -8
Tonight I had planned on camping out, albeit on our property. The forecast is for single digit (F) temps with a sizable wind chill. This is a good 20F lower than I've ever been out before (trying to go to 4 season). I had options planned, while others I figured I'd just have to wait and see what happens. Experience is the best teacher.
One of the issues was the frozen ground, which I anticipated, but had no real standby solutions for. I couldn't get an MSR Groundhog into the ground with my shoe, or using another groundhog to push it in (my usual backup method). Yeah, I could go to the shed or my truck and get a hammer, but that's not a viable solution on a real backpacking trip.
So what do y'all do in winter when the ground is similar to a rock and your tent needs stakes? Take a hammer? Use beefier boots? Man up?
Thanks.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Feb 13, 2016 15:04:31 GMT -8
Ah, the joys of winter camping here in MD; little to no snow, which means pulks and snow anchors not an option, but plenty of frozen ground.
Personally I rely on finding a large rock that is either not frozen to the ground or that I can pry up with a tent stake. I've thought about bringing a small hammer at times, but the idea just makes me shudder.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Feb 13, 2016 15:41:48 GMT -8
Thanks, tomas. I was just trying to camp out on our property, which is my usual testing site. As you are probably aware, east of the Appalachians we have a lot of red clay. It's either rock hard (cold and/or dry), or a soupy mess (warm and/or wet). It may be better out on the AT in western MD, but it could be just a difference of evils. There's less clay out there, but it's colder and there are more rocks.
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Post by Lonewolf on Feb 13, 2016 15:57:50 GMT -8
Rocks, downed limbs or trees, dead man bags filled with small rocks.
Or simply wait until you get several feet of snow and then use buried objects.... :(
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Feb 13, 2016 18:09:05 GMT -8
Hope you stay warm tonight and enjoy the challenge! I was going to go out tomorrow for an overnight, but my phone buzzed earlier and I saw the text message from MoCo warning of a storm starting tomorrow night. Not sure I'm in the mood to be on the ridge east of Hagerstown in an ice storm. Or simply wait until you get several feet of snow and then use buried objects That will be a very long wait! I'm already middle age and supposedly have gained enough wisdom in the past 49 years to deal with a tent stake and rock hard, frozen ground. |
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toejam
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Post by toejam on Feb 13, 2016 18:42:28 GMT -8
It's rare for me to be able to use the push with a foot method on my tent stakes - almost always have to pound them with rocks, which is why I can't use mini groundhogs.
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Post by scapegoat on Feb 13, 2016 19:15:23 GMT -8
I've heard of cup hooks being used on wooden platforms and adirondacks. I wonder if you could screw them into frozen dirt too hahaha
Shoot... maybe dry wall screws and a multitool -I may have to experiment soon...
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 13, 2016 19:22:33 GMT -8
If it were a routine thing there are ice screws. www.backcountry.com/ice-screwsIn the actual backcountry there's usually rocks, bushes etc. so some extra guy line cord and I'm good. |
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Feb 16, 2016 13:42:09 GMT -8
What kind of monster would subject harmless ice screws to such a harsh treatment as being screwed into earth? Although undoubtedly bombproof on ice (glacier or water), ice screws won't hold much in frozen mud. Of course, I'm speaking from an ice climber's perspective, I'm sure they hold plenty well enough for a simple tent. At $50 a screw and dulled quickly by the soil, probably not the most economical solution. |
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Feb 16, 2016 14:20:41 GMT -8
I have some thin shepherd's hook stakes. Woulda tried 'em if I wasn't brain dead. Frozen is still frozen, but I could maybe push it in with a groundhog (OOC). I think they're ti (maybe Lawson?), so presumably less likely to bend than aluminum.
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Post by hikerjer on Feb 16, 2016 19:21:40 GMT -8
I think we had a similar discussion on the old boards. What I do in the event of frozen ground is take along a single iron spike (in addition to my usual groundhogs). I pound the iron stake into the ground with a convenient rock to make a hole and then place the tent stake in the hole. Repeat until finished. Usually works. Made the mistake once of pouring in water into the holes around the stakes to secure them. I don't suggest it. It wasn't easy getting them out the next morning.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Feb 16, 2016 21:23:11 GMT -8
I just use nearby rocks (or piles of rocks) and logs.
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Post by immadman on May 1, 2016 13:18:38 GMT -8
It wasn't easy getting them out the next morning. I don't imagine... |
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gabby
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Post by gabby on May 1, 2016 13:37:24 GMT -8
I just use nearby rocks (or piles of rocks) and logs. Swedge a curved bit like that at the top of a Ground Hog, though perhaps not as deep, into the middle of your stakes beforehand, then tie off to the middle and wedge the stake behind rocks, like you'd use a "chockstone". Perhaps the best advice is to use your imagination. I find that I'm severely crippled on occasion because I tend to think about these sorts of things in "grooves" that limit my ability to see alternatives. |
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franco
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Post by franco on May 1, 2016 16:14:11 GMT -8
I'm along the Hikerjer and Lonewolf ways of doing it (blend those two comments...)
(To me using the foot to push a stake in is a very good way to bend a stake, not that it works on really dense or frozen ground anyway)
Nothing to do with stakes but given you are attempting much lower temps , something that many disregard in the situation is the importance of a correctly insulating mat.
For some reason ,that I haven't been able to work out as yet, most people sleep on really thick, well insulating mats (at home...) even in summer yet somehow they think that a 1" mat on frozen ground should be good as long as they have a correctly rated sleeping bag .
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