Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Sept 2, 2021 10:31:33 GMT -8
I leave giant, equine-scale poops. I dig a cat hole 18 inches deep, fill it halfway, and then use a solar powered bidet to clean up.
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Post by cweston on Sept 2, 2021 10:58:48 GMT -8
Some thoughts about various bidet strategies...
I can't imagine doing it WITHOUT carrying a dedicated bottle for that purpose. Yes, it is probably possible, with well thought out and practiced technique, to use one of the attachments available in a way that your water bottle stays clean every time, but that just seems like a really bad idea. So it means carrying another bottle, and probably an attachment of some sort.
Even if you eschew any sort of spray attachment and just use the "scrub yourself with one hand and water" technique, you're still going to need a dedicated water bottle for this usage, right?
I guess if you do have a dedicated bidet bottle, there's no need to put treated water in it. But you do need access to water, of course. Which you can't always rely on, so you're going to need to carry some TP anyway for those situations. TP is pretty light (so reducing the amount you carry doesn't eliminate much weight)--sounds like any bidet strategy is going to add (some) total weight to your pack.
So, I dunno. Carrying TP and packing it out just seems easier. I do normally bathe every 2-3 days in the BC, so it's not THAT terrible back there...
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davesenesac
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Post by davesenesac on Sept 2, 2021 17:36:14 GMT -8
The only backpacking trips I've carried out feces was in a few desert areas where it was mandated. Otherwise in areas I visit, primarily within the Sierra Nevada, it has only been an LNT and NFS/NPS recommendation. I've always considered that to more narrowly be a recommendation for high use areas that I rarely use that is another LNT recommendation I don't follow, that of using previously established camp/tenting locations instead of creating new ones. When I strenuously visit miles into wilderness, I greatly prefer isolation with some afternoon shade and nearby views.
Of course the majority of backcountry users are dominantly trail only users and tend to site camps near trails. Well actually despite decades old policy of siting camps out of view of trails beyond 100 feet, the ironic reality is almost all well used sites are closer than 100 feet quite visible from trails. In fact for many groups, as soon as they see other groups camped along trails, it is like a subconscious signal to find other nearby locations that result in backcountry "villages" I've over decades made fun of. Yeah hike 8 miles through virtually pristine forests and mountain environments only to site a camp near others as though real wilderness scares many people. Note in some places at some times of year limitation of water resources force that situation though some like this person will fill up containers at such water spots and then move well away. So sure if one camps in such used places, packing out feces makes sense but what about the uncommon person that sites in locations well away from such places? Note, I am one that tents atop all manner of irregular, semi level surfaces, even if a few plants and grass are there.
Then there are backcountry lakes the dominant destinations of the majority itineraries. Lakeitis, ridiculous to the point recreation dot gov only listed lakes on their itinerary sheets until recently after they noticed fair numbers tending to use "other". At alpine and timberline lakes, same situation of "villages" with used camp locations rarely more than 200 feet from lake edges. Wherever trails meet lakes is usually a group of well-used village sites groups have used for years. Walk along the shore of larger lakes with just sparse use routes and beyond a quarter mile, few or no sites. How does that happen? Well one way is for those using trails, fair numbers won't hike together but rather allow those stronger to hike ahead at their own pace. So one of them reaches a lake destination and instead of waiting for others to arrive before deciding where to site a camp, just flop down at the first spot along the end of the trail. By time others arrive their packs have been emptied out and are making dinner. So make camps in such places, yeah carry out feces.
Some might wonder if it is environmentally valid to bury TP etc in 6"+ deep cat holes even well away from trails, use routes, and lakes? Consider what one is going to find even just a couple years later? Well TP ain't plastic but rather is an organic wood product that will degenerate into soil like other organic matter. In like matter, when I catch fish, I don't pack out or bury guts/head/fins but rather just toss such out in the landscapes for ants, birds, and chipmunks. Most of the time we base camp so, fish heads days later are still where we tossed them that tends to show they like thin pieces of TP tend to be ignored even by creatures so are likely to just disintegrate harmlessly.
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Travis
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Post by Travis on Sept 2, 2021 18:40:50 GMT -8
davesenesac , I think the focus of the thread and question trinity asked is on toilet paper rather than the feces. But I agree with much of what you said about people making far too conspicuous campsites near trails and grouping up at lakes. Those habits at large seem far out of control.
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Post by cweston on Sept 3, 2021 5:06:28 GMT -8
he ironic reality is almost all well used sites are closer than 100 feet quite visible from trails. In fact for many groups, as soon as they see other groups camped along trails, it is like a subconscious signal to find other nearby locations that result in backcountry " villages" I've over decades made fun of Right. Some of that is intentional on people's part fror reasons I don't really understand either, but a fair amount of can be terrain-related, too. In rugged mountain high-country, for example, a lake basin might provide the only flat, talus-free ground for miles. Throw in the added benefits of access to water and great views, and it's pretty obvious why camps are going to tend to cluster there.
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Sept 3, 2021 6:14:45 GMT -8
I’d say become better “acquainted” with natural materials (smooth rocks, smooth sticks, appropriate leaves that aren’t poison oak) and the travel bidet methods. The video from Andrew S mentioned above is a good tutorial. Mike Clelland in the video wrote his own illustrated book covering the methods above … if one needs a diagram.
After last years toilet paper shortages, even having an “add-on” bidet attachment for flush toilets isn’t out of the question.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Sept 3, 2021 11:34:35 GMT -8
This sort of thing has never left me as squeamish as most, I guess. I suppose it's because I've had pets all my life, helped care for livestock and been around babies. Granted, it's more of a "situational thing" than I'd like to admit, but, if you've ever had an infant, you get used to all of it -- or you die. The video from Andrew S mentioned above Huh??? What video???
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Sept 3, 2021 13:04:35 GMT -8
Yep, practice at home. First there’s natural materials like a flat and smooth rock, smooth stick, and certain large leaf material, .. at the very end, I’ll reuse the baby wipes used the night before on my torso with a little water and Dr B’s. Definitely pack out the twice used baby wipes (try to get biodegradable wipes). This sort of thing has never left me as squeamish as most, I guess. I suppose it's because I've had pets all my life, helped care for livestock and been around babies. Granted, it's more of a "situational thing" than I'd like to admit, but, if you've ever had an infant, you get used to all of it -- or you die. The video from Andrew S mentioned above Huh??? What video??? I might be following this on other social media. There’s the above search from SBN and then there’s this video from AS youtu.be/zwmwxkD86Ec
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Sept 3, 2021 15:39:26 GMT -8
I might be following this on other social media. There’s the above search from SBN and then there’s this video from AS Thanks for the link, swmtnbackpacker . Sometimes, guys, I feel like I'm getting older much, much faster than I think I want. I confess that it took a few ticks more than probably necessary (cp. to you super young whippersnappers with your super fast minds) for me to figure out that "SBN" was a reference to SB M/ Sleeping Bag Man! (I had previously, and fairly laboriously, worked out that "Andrew S" & "AS" referred to "Andrew Skurka". Go figure. It was all there for anyone astute enough to see and understand.) I guess you guys know these people personally, whereas, for me, they're writers, authors of books I've read and owners of blogs & websites I've (probably) visited over the years, but who remain firmly on the periphery of my personal life. I haven't, until today (see below), spent any time trying to figure out who these people are. Now, I kinda wish I hadn't. :^)I guess my wife's right about my thick-headedness and so on because I rarely "get" allusive & tangential statements. Acronyms are, with few exceptions and without the help of Google search, mostly impenetrable unless they're really, really familiar. I don't know if this is something new for me or not: I had to deal with a hell of a lot of acronyms back in my "programming days". I was familiar with stacks (LIFO) and queues (FIFO), IDEs and GUIs, had a notion what a JRE, JVM or JSON was, understood the rudiments of HTML and XML, used REGEXs a lot using Kornscript and Perl, knew how to use an API and an MVC model, had to understand UTCs and GMT to make my programs function internationally, knew WYSIWYG and other keyboard layouts and even experimented with them from time to time, knew what an EOF was and how to detect it on Unix and other OPSYSs, used FTP and SDKs almost every day, knew how to create and use SQL, knew a little bit about OOP and CVS and GNU. But still, I stumble over other acros. Oh, and, BTW, don't ever, ever, ever Google "Mike Clelland" if you value your sanity. Trying to find that video you referenced (again) by selecting the phrase "Mike Clelland in the video" from your earlier post: Mike Clelland in the video wrote his own illustrated book covering the methods above … if one needs a diagram. I got some heavily weird stuff - or so it seems to me. It took me most of the afternoon to determine that the guy who wrote and/or illustrated many of those lovely little books on backpacking that I own and have read was also the guy who wrote that book in the center of this picture up there from Amazon, and who sorta thinks he was abducted (while out camping in the Tetons with a sympatico friend) by aliens (who might not be from a place other than earth, as I understand it, and who are mysteriously associated with owls) and who is known in UFO circles as "owl man". I have an entirely new perspective on his books and drawings that may or may not be reasonable or even useful. Of course, I suspect that it doesn't really matter. His website, "www.mikeclelland.com" - yowsa! "I want to hear your owl stories".
And some interviews: Koncrete: "The Mysterious Connection between Owls & UFO Contact | Mike Clelland"I am seriously freaked out. And I also apologize mucho for yet again flailing a perfectly good thread - and a really useful one this time on pooping. Tangentiality is the tendency to speak about topics unrelated to the main topic of discussion. While most people engage in tangentiality from time to time, constant and extreme tangentiality may indicate an underlying mental health condition, particularly schizophrenia. Looks like I may have very serious problems. Anyway, thanks for the video link.
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Sept 3, 2021 15:43:50 GMT -8
I might be following this on other social media. There’s the above search from SBM and then there’s this video from AS Thanks for the link, swmtnbackpacker . Oh, and, BTW, don't ever, ever, ever Google "Mike Clelland" if you value your sanity. Trying to find that video you referenced (again) by selecting the phrase "Mike Clelland in the video" from your earlier post: Mike Clelland in the video wrote his own illustrated book covering the methods above … if one needs a diagram. I got some heavily weird stuff - or so it seems to me. It took me most of the afternoon to determine that the guy who wrote and/or illustrated many of those lovely little books on backpacking that I own and have read was also the guy who wrote that book in the center of this picture up there from Amazon, and who sorta thinks he was abducted (while out camping in the Tetons with a sympatico friend) by aliens (who might not be from a place other than earth, as I understand it, and who are mysteriously associated with owls) and who is known in UFO circles as "owl man"…. Of course, I suspect that it doesn't really matter. His website, "www.mikeclelland.com" - yowsa! "I want to hear your owl stories". … And some interviews:
Koncrete: "The Mysterious Connection between Owls & UFO Contact | Mike Clelland"
I am seriously freaked out. And I also apologize mucho for yet again flailing a perfectly good thread - and a really useful one this time on pooping.. Mike C. was known as an ultralight backpacking illustrator, then his interests went towards … other endeavors. His name hasn’t been circulating in backpacking circles since. In terms of weird experiences, could be like the original Woodstock when it was announced “don’t eat the brown acid” and some were thinking “oops”. Still kept his backpacking books though.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Sept 4, 2021 19:20:18 GMT -8
Haven't used TP in the back country in years. I use Mountain money, moss (shaken to remove needles and dirt), smooth rocks, or snow. Problem solved.
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rangewalker
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Post by rangewalker on Sept 6, 2021 11:59:39 GMT -8
I am also no a fan of single plastics and am evolving toward a backcountry bidet life but in a lot of desert areas, water is at pick-in premium. I LOVE the doggie waste bags. And I toss in a sanitized wipe in the bag, after use. My potty kit has a bag for two to three days. Then it goes into the nominal food waste bag that lives in an ancient Ursack. Before doggy waste bags, I used to use a emptied wipe canisters, those tallish white LPE plastic bottles. Fresh empties with 10-20 mL of resid liquid were best.
It is unlikely you will see new construction of waste stations in designated wilderness. There are not resources for staff or logistics to maintain them among our Federal Land managers. The American public through Congress won't support it. i carry a wag bag on my commuter and dirt road tour bike as a matter of course.
My local National Forest, has a haul it out Special Order, for human waste in one basin. And other National Forests have taken note and used the Bighorn NF as a model for the future.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Sept 6, 2021 19:38:03 GMT -8
I know it depends on the locale. Here in the NE I think it breaks down fairly well. Most places have enough water and organic activity. I do my best to make sure I dig a deep cathole. I don't know if the rules have changed about this but in talking to the rangers in the White Mts ages ago they said all the camps that have good access to Mt Washington have a ring of poop and toilet paper around them after the winter season and the snow melts. Some are uninhabitable for weeks in the spring. I guess people go about the same distance from camp but in random directions to poop in the snow.
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