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Post by peakbagger on Sept 5, 2020 17:23:30 GMT -8
Hey everyone,
GEAR: I'm hoping to take a shot at Gannett Peak next early September (maybe late August if I can get the other in my party to move the schedule up). I plan to attempt this with one other, no porters or guides. If this does come to pass it would probably become my most difficult unguided trip. In the past I've been very frugal with my backpacking purchases, but am concerned that the quality AND weight of my current gear could reduce the likelihood I successfully reach the top of Gannett. I think I'm ready to put some $ down to improve my equipment. I've been looking for gear list, but am mostly running into lists that feel like advertisements or lists missing obvious gear requirements (the last one I reviewed omitted an ice ax and crampons).
I've read full packs on Gannett often weigh 45 - 65 lbs. I'd really like to find a way to stay under even the bottom end of this range.
Does anyone have a solid gear list for such a climb? I'm expecting 4 days out with nights down to 15, maybe 10, degrees F. I expect to some glacier travel and snow fields. A total distance of around 50 miles. I also expect many mosquitoes and some difficult creek crossings. I am 6' and 190 lb, hope to be around 170 lb when this takes place, but not counting on it.
I'll look through the threads for the below, but gear I certainly will want to buy or replace are below if anyone wants to weigh in specifically: - Boots (current boots are at the end of their life... I have weak ankles and will need ankle support) - Crampons and Ice ax (I think this is one place I have an opportunity to cut quite a bit of weight) - Harness and Rope (I currently don't own) - Sleeping Pad (I want to improve performance, I feel like I'm right on the ground right now)
Training: My glacier and ice climbing is primarily focused on two guided trips to the Andes. I think it would be wise to review techniques on such climbing. Any ideas of where this could be done in North Carolina?
Thanks
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 5, 2020 18:06:57 GMT -8
Here’s be a good start. East or west approach? Which route? Out of Titcomb Basin? www.summitpost.org/gannett-peak/150362Btw? Crampons and ice axe as a place to “cut quite a bit of weight”? Imho anyway life saving gear isn’t the optimal place to cut corners, even less so on a big wilderness mountain. Especially in the context of “May be the most alpine peak in the American Rockies” as Joe Kelsey writes in his climbers guide. I’ve usually found the largest weight savings in my shelter choice. Also the pack itself. Food choices dictate how much kitchen you need: boiling water is a lightweight setup. Pocket Rocket and a pot... none of that’s carried on the summit day anyway. For steep snow and ice my only thought in the East would be an AMC course. You might hit up a local REI for suggestions. amc-nh.org/committee/excursions/index-winterworkshop.php[amc-nh.org/committee/mountaineering/training/index.phpbr] August is likely to have better weather.
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Post by peakbagger on Sept 5, 2020 18:41:41 GMT -8
@high Sierra Fan Thanks for the feedback. The current plan would be via the Glacier Trail, with hopes of a shorter summit day.
I do not want to cut weight if it costs performance or reliability, but am hoping by being less frugal I can improve performance while reducing weight.
I will look up an AMC course.
I am going to try to talk my climbing partner into early August, he has said he would prefer the 1st week of September. I think the first week of September is the latest I will agree to.
I did see a gear list on the SummitPost page for Glacier Trail I had previously overlooked.
Thanks
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 5, 2020 20:29:30 GMT -8
Listing what you have now for the route could provide a starting place for suggestions for possible options.
Oh and post in the “Mountain States” regional section for area specific suggestions. The Winds are popular enough you should get plenty of feedback that’s current to conditions at this time of year.
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Westy
Trail Wise!
Diagnosed w/Post-Trail Transition Syndrome
Posts: 1,957
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Post by Westy on Sept 6, 2020 2:55:29 GMT -8
These photos are from a July summit 30-32 years ago. Very, very likely much less snowpack today. What I recall was no crevasse issues, Approaching from Titcomb Basin the first "climb" is up to a pass then a moderate down to Dinwoody Glacier. Cross the glacier, bang a left then a right to a couloir on Gooseneck Pinnacle to the summit ridge. Our gear would be considered antiques today, note the vintage Asolo AFS 101 boots and Lowe Foot Fangs. Lots of options. See way below. We did not use rope. Today I suspect snow conditions could be minimal so a climbing helmet for rockfall highly recommended. Would also deploy gaiters so if crampons are used you mitigate tears on your pant leg. For insurance perhaps a 60' length of 8mm rope, makeshift harness from a sling, a locking carabiner, knowledge of a munter hitch or belay device. Also, you may want to call Great Outdoors Shop - Pinedale, WY for latest conditions particularly the bergschrund. Dinwoody GlacierCouloir on Gooseneck Pinnacle (Note: French Technique) On summit ridge
La Sportiva Makalu'sGrivel Crampons to Match Boots70 mm Ice AxeIce Axe Protector
Ice Axe Leash My leash is home made The above is my current kit. Once or twice a year I do a moderate to low angle snow couloirs that would be similar to Gannett. I like control and solid purchase. Do not buy crampons and boots like these below. This is gear I have but would not use on Gannett. They work well crossing snowfields or a low angle slope now and again but.........when you kick hard to get a purchase they will be loosey-goosey. OK on a thru hike, bad on a climb. CAMP Universal CramponsAsolo TPS 420This is the best I could find. I watch hikers, climbers wear themselves out every time I go for a hike. This is one of my key old timer now old guy tricks. Go French
And in ScotlandCrampon School
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Post by peakbagger on Sept 6, 2020 18:21:11 GMT -8
Westy, Thanks for the feedback, and nice photos of Gannett. In the climbing I did in Peru the French technique is what was taught, though they didn't give it this name. We also had us practiced self arrest, though I didn't end up needing to put it to use. I feel pretty confident in both crampon use and self arrest. I do not feel comfortable on a rope or with belaying and that is where I would like hands on training. I like the looks of the La Sportiva Makalu's.
High Sierra Fan, Below is a majority of the list of the things I would pack from my current gear if going today. I've marked things I'll almost certainly replace with an asterisk:
1. *Boots - Garmont Civetta Gore-Tex (56oz/pair) - I also have a pair of Koflach Artis Expe, but believe they're overkill for this trip. 2. Trekking Poles - Leki Voyager (16.4 oz/pair) 3. *Rain Jacket - There's no name on the jacket, and it no longer keeps me dry in a continual rain it will need to be replaced 4. Base Layer Top and Bottom - No name 5. Mid Layer Top - Mountain Hardware Toasty Twill Fleece (9.7 oz) 6. *Outer Layer Top - Millet Pobeda PrimaLoft 3-in-1 (51 oz) 7. Socks - Darn Tough Wool 8. Water Filter - Sawyer 9. Water Bottles - Two CamelBack 1 liter bottles 10. Headlamp - Snowpeak Snowminer - (3.5 oz) (uses 3 AAA batteries, pack two sets) 11. Mittens - Mountain Hardware Medusa (9.5oz) 12. *Gloves - Mountain Hardware Jalapeno - I seem to struggle more than most keeping my hands warm. I need the warmest gloves I can find 13. Helmet - climbing technology galaxy helmet (12.3 oz) 14. Backpack - Osprey Aether 70 - (85 oz) 15. Ice ax - Black Diamond 70cm (~15oz) 16. Crampons - Grivel Monte Rosa (45oz/pair) 17. Tent - Bear Grylls Cascade Series 1-person tent - (~70 oz) (There's a good chance I wouldn't take this and would share a tent with the other person in the party. 18. Pillow - no name inflatable 19. Gaiters - Rab Latok Alpine (9.2 oz) 20. Sleeping Bag - Hyke and Byke 0F Down; not sure of model (~48 oz) 21. Goggles - UVEX Downhill II (4.2 OZ) 22. Rain Cover - Gregory 5000CI (4.8 oz) 23. *Sleeping Pad - ALPS Mountaineering ultralight series (24 oz) - I feel like I'm on the ground 24. Pants - Thin water resistant 25. Over Pants - Ski pants 26. Cooking - I've never carried cooking equipment and taken only food that can be prepared without heat (Tuna, PB&J, etc). I'm all ears to food suggestions and keeping it light weight. I'll look through the threads on this site as well.
Needed: Rope, Harness, Carabiner
Thanks again
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rebeccad
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Writing like a maniac
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Post by rebeccad on Sept 7, 2020 6:27:22 GMT -8
peakbagger, I have no expertise on climbing, so not much help there, but I’m shocked at the weight of your tent and pad. You can definitely cut the pad weight by close to 1/2 (I was going to say by more than, but you would have to be willing to use a short pad), though the lightest pads probably lack adequate insulation. As for the tent... well, a nice BA Copperspur 1P is under 30 oz. Heck, even the 2P is under 50. As for food, head on over to the cooking thread, but also take a look at trailcooking.com and read up about Freezer Bag Cooking (FBC). It shifts the prep to home, and on the trail sticks with adding boiling water, as one does with commercial meals (only home-prepped tastes better. It’s also often a little heavier, as freeze-drying is the lightest way to preserve food). Several of us are very into our food and will be happy to discuss it! There are lengthy discussions of stoves here in the Gear section. With the fire seasons the way they’ve been going, I’m hesitant to recommend an alcohol stove, but there are discussions of good/light/cheap canister stoves, too.
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rangewalker
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Agitate, organize and educate.
Posts: 1,029
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Post by rangewalker on Sept 7, 2020 10:16:27 GMT -8
peakbagger I have not climbed Gannett but have packed the approaches from the Fitzpatrick Wilderness side. 3. Rain Jacket: For alpine excursions, my experience is this piece of swag is critical. My more affordable favorite is the Outdoor Research GTX Foray. It has full side zippers/two ways that allow for hip belts and harnesses. The hood is made to chinch down to baldpate or downhill helmets. I just hiked out 9 miles and through a mountain pass in freezing rain and snow (August 30) with the Foray pulled over a Patagonia Micro Puff, base layer, and thin wool beanie. A good rain parka is also your Rocky Mountains everyday wind wear. Get 1X size to accommodate your puffy underneath. I was just right temp and sweat wise the whole march. 9300' to 7800' in Wyoming. 9. Water bottles: you need more than two liters capacity od filtered water. Dehydration at altitude is a real issue. I prefer 1-2 hard side bottles like a Nalgene Lexan bottle, that can take drops and bounces on the trail or on boulders. And clean up easily after using drink mixes. Then back up with some 1-2 soft bottles that have the "C" type bottle threads that are compatible with Sawyer filters and most Platypus brand water packs and bottles. 17. I am an emergent winter camper. If I were a climber than intends to be above timberline for an extended period, I would take my Black Diamond First Light, 2 person that comes in at 50 ounces. It is self-supporting with the crossed poles inside the body. Very uncomplicated single wall. Very quick set up. Never leave unattended without some big rocks INSIDE. Very flight prone. That is why I am on my second one.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 7, 2020 10:49:47 GMT -8
A one person over four pound tent is easily replaceable. Tarptent makes a nice one pound shelter in the Aeon. My Mountain Laurel Designs Solomid is 11 ozs...
A known brand 15 or 10 degree bag will be far lighter than the one you list (never heard of it). There are good examples at Western Mountaineering or Feathered Friends, I’ve also been very happy with Marmot though mines heavier than my comparable WM Antelope (both GWS which you won’t need for in tent use, the micro fiber versions are lighter and mine packs smaller).
For more padding a Big Agnes insulated AXL pad is 12 ozs.
Id second the hydration suggestions above. Cycling teaches us even a slight loss in hydration and both power and reasoning drop dangerously. My current mix is a flexible 1 L Platypus, one Naghene hard bottle and an MSR Dromedary bladder for camp and backup.
Freeze dried food will be lighter, you won’t be carrying the water contained in your food. And a canister stove plus a pot for boiling water split between two people is a tiny burden for the extra boost of warm food. Overall gear-wise I’d suggest looking at it as a five day alpine backpack with a rest day summit push. Oh and at elevation later in the season you won’t see much mosquitos: a hard freeze at night and they’re gone. That’s why once July is over I tend to go floorless shelter.
Speaking of summit day I didn’t see a summit pack? I like my Flash 18 but there are others.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 7, 2020 12:55:43 GMT -8
What about navigation and communication? In a climb and approach over rough terrain immobilizing injuries are always a factor and while self extraction is always the best option some times it’s either not feasible or the delay is inevitably going to violate your backup schedule and have your home request a SAR response anyway. That’s when a satellite device if some sort can be useful And, of course, in wilderness navigation, gear and skills are always a fundamental component of a trip.
I don’t know what the bear food storage regulations are for there but that’s bear country so it’s something to get right that’s for sure.
ETA: both the Bridger-Teton and Shoshone NFs have requirements to either hang 10ft up or use bear cans.
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Post by trinity on Sept 7, 2020 13:53:24 GMT -8
Some good gear suggestions here. Sounds like you will probably be sharing a tent, but if you decide to replace your shelter, a Duomid in Silnylon would be an inexpensive and lightweight option that would hold up to high winds. For a pad, I still consider the Neoair X-lite to be the gold standard, but lots of people use the NEMO Tensor, which is very comfortable. For a very small weight penalty you could get a Neoair X-therm, which provides a lot of warmth for the weight. If I could only own one pad, it would be the X-therm. I would definitely replace your bag, which is heavy and probably overkill (assuming it's true to its temp rating). Everyone needs a good 20 degree bag, which should be a good temp rating for this trip. Too many good options to list, but you'll never go wrong with Western Mountaineering. Lots of good stove options as well, I recently purchased a Pocket Rocket Deluxe, and would highly recommend it, a great lightweight canister stove. Rain jacket is one area I might take a more inexpensive option, Marmot Precip is a solid jacket, for only 100 bucks. I can't imagine carrying a 51 ounce top on any trip. With the other items of clothing you've listed, a lightweight down sweater would probably be ideal. Something with 3-4 ounces of 800 fill down or better, should come in under a pound. Those are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. And yes, I realize that I'm recommending well over $1000 in gear! Finding a good hang might be difficult in some areas, so I'd take a bear can (you'll be in grizzly country). If you don't have one, I'd either buy a BV500 or rent a Bearikade.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 7, 2020 14:55:55 GMT -8
Ii’d second the canister; there’s a lot of reportsoif grizzly expanding into the Winds so marginal hangs could be a problem: and high up trees get scarce. I’d go with Area agency recommendations on bear spray, might be less obligatory than further north.
ETA; Outer Layer Top - Millet Pobeda PrimaLoft 3-in-1 (51 oz)
No. Nothing that heavy is worth it for a summer route. Too much insulation and not enough breath ability from its description. A Gore-Tex etc. shell over layers has better utility.
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Post by trinity on Sept 7, 2020 16:07:53 GMT -8
I’d go with Area agency recommendations on bear spray, might be less obligatory than further north. Personally, I wouldn't go into grizzly country without it, even though the main purpose isn't to keep me safe, but to give me peace of mind. Last time I was there (5 years ago), The Great Outdoors in Pinedale sold pre-owned but unused bear spray, which saved a little money. After my trip, I just donated it back, since I couldn't take it on the airplane with me.
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Post by peakbagger on Sept 7, 2020 17:20:23 GMT -8
Thanks for all of the feedback. I realized when making this list I've been carrying more weight than I thought. I'd ran into one or two articles with something about "Grizzlies are back in the winds". I have a bear canister somewhere. It didn't show up when I was going through my gear to make the list. I need to be sure the canister and spray are on the list. I have never been in Grizzly country. I will add a day pack to the list as well The tent is something my mom bought me for Christmas when I first started hiking. If we don't share a tent this will be upgraded. I also had a much better, lighter outer layer top, but think it is gone. trinity I posted this with the expectation of spending more than $1000, but it still hurts me a bit to see the number. I can afford things now that I couldn't 10 years ago when I started accumulating many of these items. I'll probably buy one or two items at a time to not hurt my account too much all at once. Thanks
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 7, 2020 17:38:53 GMT -8
The Wind River range is a glorious destination. Also If you’ve time a pop over to the Grand Teton NP would be worth it.
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