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Post by cheaptentguy on Jan 1, 2016 10:02:50 GMT -8
Just got a Big Agnes Rattlesnake tent. Want a cheap, simple footprint to get started.
I used 2 mil painter's plastic to cut a footprint two inches smaller than the tent. However, I left one triangle for a vestibule just in case I wanted some kind of protection for gear outside out the tent. Figured I'd just tuck it underneath the tent if I didn't need it.
Is going to cause potential problems? Concerned I might be pulling rain under the tent.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jan 1, 2016 10:11:20 GMT -8
I always put my ground sheet inside the tent because we get gully washers here and heavy deluges causing ground water to form pools under the tent. If you use a ground cloth under the tent floor you will end up with small water pools forming on top of the sheet and below the floor, unable to drain. A decent tent floor with decent denier numbers should be able to handle small rocks and thorns. Plus, an inside ground cloth will still protect your inflatable sleeping pad from any errant thorns. Here's an example of my inside ground cloth. I like white because you can see stuff on the floor.
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franco
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Post by franco on Jan 1, 2016 13:13:06 GMT -8
Bibler addressed the potential problem of having the vestibule groundcover channelling water onto the floor by raising the corners of the groundcloth via clips. It formed a sort of a bucket.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jan 1, 2016 15:06:35 GMT -8
Other than making the footprint slightly smaller than the tent floor, I've never worried about making my own and I live in the great soaking wet PNW. I like Tyvek slightly better than painters tarp because I've found it to be quieter after a bit of use. I've always put mine UNDER the tent vs. inside as the main purpose of it for me is to protect the tent floor.
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Post by JRinGeorgia on Jan 1, 2016 15:26:04 GMT -8
If you have a groundcloth under your tent floor and some part of it is sticking out then you do add to the risk of channeling water between the groundcloth and floor underside. So if the triangle you left is part of the groundcloth (all one piece) then it could be an issue.
The reality is that if you left that particular vestibule area as part of the groundcloth then you intend to always be setting up the fly to create that vestibule area, so it will be covered.
Best approach is to separate it, have a mini groundcloth for just the vestibule area, and don't tuck it between your tent floor and main groundcloth. You could DIY it to have a folded up lip to act like a bathtub floor.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jan 1, 2016 16:13:43 GMT -8
The main purpose of a ground sheet for me is to protect my inflatable sleeping pads from puncture holes. The reason I do not use an outside ground cloth below the tent floor is for rainstorms like in the above video. All this water will settle between the ground sheet and the floor no matter if a piece of the sheet is sticking out beyond the tent floor or not.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jan 1, 2016 16:41:48 GMT -8
The main purpose of a ground sheet for me is to protect my inflatable sleeping pads from puncture holes. The reason I do not use an outside ground cloth below the tent floor is for rainstorms like in the above video. I don't understand your logic. If you have no holes in your tent floor (due to the groundsheet being under the tent), the ground sheet will have done the job and you won't have to worry about getting wet inside with a bathtub floor and it will protect your sleeping pad as well. However if you're camping in a marsh or the like, if your floor does have a hole in it because you haven't protected from underneath, a groundsheet inside the shelter won't stop the rain from seeping in.
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johnnyray
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Post by johnnyray on Jan 1, 2016 17:30:16 GMT -8
I use 4 mil plastic cut about 4 inches smaller on all side than my tent and it goes under the tent, nothing for the vestibule.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jan 1, 2016 19:02:56 GMT -8
As the owner of 4 Hilleberg tents, all of which were purchased with the optional Hilleberg groundsheet, I would like to add that ALL of the Hilleberg-provided groundsheets extend into the vestibule. Keep in mind, however, that, though the printed material that is provided by Hilleberg states that the "vestibule groundsheet" extension is intended to lower condensation/sublimation rates from natural ground cover such as grass, snow and the like in otherwise relatively dry conditions, which vapor will end up inside the tent, this is entirely situational. On other surfaces and in other conditions, this would clearly not apply.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jan 1, 2016 19:52:22 GMT -8
I don't understand your logic. If you have no holes in your tent floor (due to the groundsheet being under the tent), the ground sheet will have done the job and you won't have to worry about getting wet inside with a bathtub floor and it will protect your sleeping pad as well. However if you're camping in a marsh or the like, if your floor does have a hole in it because you haven't protected from underneath, a groundsheet inside the shelter won't stop the rain from seeping in. First off, in my case Hilleberg has the best tent floors on the market (in my opinion) and I've never had a water leak from the bottom up even without an outside ground sheet. Even in conditions as shown in my video. But in such conditions I do not want my waterproof ground cloth below the tent to collect water. Simple. The point of an inner ground cloth is many-fold: To allow pools of ground water to drain away and not get sandwiched between two waterproof layers as mentioned, i.e. the ground cloth and the tent floor---it makes for drier conditions overall. Water can't drain fully if sandwiched between a ground sheet below the tent floor. Second, the ground tarp provides protection for my inflatable Thermarest, whether inside or out. Third, the inner ground cloth keeps condensation and/or condensating ice from below my sleeping pad and places it between the tent floor and the inside ground tarp. Finally, there's the problem with most ground cloths whether under a tent or inside a tent: Namely, they leak. Do this test in the backyard: ** Get water hose and fill up a low place in the grass with a small pool. ** Over top throw your tent floor on the water and sit down on your butt for 5 minutes. No water should seep thru. ** Now do the same test with your ground cloth; tyvek, ripstop nylon, silnylon, cuben. Sit on it for 5 minutes. This test mirrors real world conditions on wet slushy snow or in deluges as in my video. Body weight should not allow water to sponge thru your tent floor or your ground cloth. One of the few tarps I have found to not allow seepage are the walmart style blue tarps. They can be cut to size and come in many different thicknesses---mils. The next test for ground sheet thickness is to go find a rose thorn and try and poke it thru your ground cloth. It should be thick enough to turn away the thorn. About 10 mil works good--- www.sears.com/dry-top-312164-12-by-16-foot-super/p-SPM11918100919
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 1, 2016 20:14:43 GMT -8
As long as the sheet never extends out from under the tent when there's rain I can't see it being an issue. The one thing you might check into is polycryo plastic: the cross linked olefin is tougher than some other plastic sheeting and for a ground cloth that is meant to absorb the damage that's a nice plus. In a home improvement store it might be found in the window sealing section as its a shrink wrap product application out in the world. It's also what the UL websites often sell as their ground cloth material of choice. I've used the same piece for my Solomid for a couple of years now and there's zero noticeable effect [ETA: and since the Solomid is a floorless mid tarp it's also the MAIN floor except when I use an inner net. . www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=144gossamergear.com/polycryo-tent-ground-sheets-protection.htmlwww.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=polycryo&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=3527190963&hvqmt=p&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=m&ref=pd_sl_7d9dsffl82_pFor simplicity I might go with a separate piece that I could just bundle up when it was not needed. As that area gets a tad more rough use when I'm putting on and taking off my boots I'd also maybe use a doubled sheet. Though I must admit instead I just am careful and brush off my socks and have never bothered flooring the vestibule. Maybe because my preference is side entry tents rather than front? So it's easy for my to sit with my butt in the shelter and my boots outside where the debris is.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jan 1, 2016 20:20:03 GMT -8
High Sierra Fan---I need to get some of that and try it out with my water-butt test and my thorn test. It looks interesting.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jan 1, 2016 21:21:14 GMT -8
Thank you for your explanation. It must be due to location. I've not had the same experiences with ground tarps that you have. I've done 3 mil plastic, tyvek, and silnylon floors. All have performed admirably in the PNW. I don't have thorny ground issues in the terrain I hike in although I am concerned about abrasion from rocks/sticks. Slushy snow and PNW downpours have been kept at bay quite well using a ground tarp under my shelter. I've kept one tent floor working well for 16 years using my method (with minor repairs). I like having a dry undamaged tent floor and using the ground tarp underneath accomplishes that for me. To each his own I guess.
For the OP, I don't prefer to have a ground tarp for my vestibule in my front entry tent and my beloved Shangri-La floorless tent, I also liked having an area in the entry where I could just walk in and only had a ground tarp under my bed area.
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johnnyray
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Post by johnnyray on Jan 1, 2016 21:49:00 GMT -8
I must admit having the ground cloth extend into the vestibule to prevent moisture from the ground creating condensation is something that never gave much thought to. I always kept the vestibule ground open in the event of wet gear storage, will need to give myself the option for either situation.
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Post by cheaptentguy on Jan 2, 2016 5:26:40 GMT -8
I'll probably give the polycryo a try. Is it sturdy enough that I might want to try and attach grommets or would that be overkill?
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