markskor
Trail Wise!
Mammoth Lakes & Tuolumne Meadows...living the dream
Posts: 651 
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Post by markskor on Oct 29, 2019 13:13:56 GMT -8
www.pcta.org/2019/changes-2020-pct-long-distance-permit-67718/"Travel in the Southern Sierra (Kennedy Meadows South to Sonora Pass) must be continuous with no skips or changes in direction. If you exit the Southern Sierra to do more than resupply or wish to re-enter at a different trailhead, perhaps after hiking elsewhere, you must obtain a new permit from the local land management agency if you wish to hike in the Southern Sierra. Your PCT long-distance permit will no longer be valid for travel through the Southern Sierra as your travel is no longer continuous."
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Post by trekkerman on Oct 29, 2019 14:31:56 GMT -8
I faced similar regulations a number of years ago trying to take a bus from Israel to Syria when passing through Palestine.
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almostthere
Trail Wise!
putting on my hiking shoes....
Posts: 696 
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Post by almostthere on Oct 30, 2019 6:19:22 GMT -8
Last year one of the rangers did a head count, upon hitting the section in our local National Forest. She counted more than 600 hikers that day. Past time to throttle back the nonstop resource destruction.
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Post by johntpenca on Oct 30, 2019 7:37:53 GMT -8
"Travel in the Southern Sierra (Kennedy Meadows South to Sonora Pass) That pretty much captures the entire sierra, not just the southern sierra. Can't understand the logic. How will limiting skipping reduce usage? How will they know if someone skips? I also think forcing hikers to go from Whitney to Mammoth if the conditions are beyond their skills in heavy snow years presents a safety concern. |
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whistlepunk
Trail Wise!
I was an award winning honor student once. I have no idea what happened...
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Post by whistlepunk on Oct 30, 2019 8:26:05 GMT -8
The PCT crosses Highway 36 a few miles from my house. I hike the local sections every once in a while. Going southbound has become areal PITA. You literally meet another group of NOBO hikers every quarter mile. For a month or so every summer at the peak season, the trail is a congested freeway.
The town of Chester likes it. The merchants call it PCT season when all the hikers thumb rides the few miles into town to shower and engorge on junk food. The Chamber of Commerce supports building a trail connector network from the official PCT into town.
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almostthere
Trail Wise!
putting on my hiking shoes....
Posts: 696
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Post by almostthere on Oct 30, 2019 8:27:56 GMT -8
They aren't forced to do anything. I get that folks want to do the whole thing at one go, but the mountains will be there next year, do the section you couldn't do this year in the future when it's safer.
I know, I know - people won't conform to my expectations of prioritizing life over "big deal thru hike that's super important and worth dying for." Just too pragmatic for my own good that way.
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markskor
Trail Wise!
Mammoth Lakes & Tuolumne Meadows...living the dream
Posts: 651
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Post by markskor on Oct 30, 2019 10:46:36 GMT -8
Just wondering...
Up in TM, we see a lot of the PCT going off the "continuous S - N route" and doing Half Dome, seeing Yosemite Valley, and then hitching up (or taking YARTS) back to the Meadows to continue on north. From the sounds of this new rule, a new permit would then be required...yeah right! Just wondering who is going to police this new regulation... And how are they supposed to do this?
Another question too: What does a "resupply" stop actually mean...1 day, 3 days, a week? How are rangers going to tell the real ones from those who might lie? (Would a PCT hiker ever lie?)
Those going north and then flip-flopping, coming back and redoing a section going south - these may be easier to spot (if you happen to be stopped and a ranger asks to see your permit), but if staying northbound, and you "yellow-lined", (bus or hitched) from Bishop to Mammoth, (or Mammoth to TM), and then continued on, who would know?
Finally, if you went off the PCT at Seavey Pass, and hiked into Bridgeport, and then hitched up to Sonora Pass (which is what I did), is this legal as you are now re-entering the PCT out of the Southern Sierra restricted area, and/or is a new permit required? A lot of questions and very little manpower.
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Post by johntpenca on Oct 30, 2019 12:17:56 GMT -8
They aren't forced to do anything. I get that folks want to do the whole thing at one go, but the mountains will be there next year, do the section you couldn't do this year in the future when it's safer. From what was posted, the permit is no longer valid for a thru-hike. From then on getting new permits is a condition for every section thereafter? Thru-hikers generally don't want to come back next year, the goal is to finish in a calendar year. Flipping is how it is done for many. What if they skip a section due to fires? It just doesn't make sense to me. Sounds like knee jerk bureaucratic thinking. Want to cut down on thru-hikers? Just eliminate the thru permit entirely. |
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almostthere
Trail Wise!
putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on Oct 30, 2019 12:59:19 GMT -8
Well, the permit was already set up in such a way that it was invalid if you left the wilderness for more than 24 hours, I thought. So I'm not sure how this is really a change.
Wilderness permits for plain old backpacking trips are null and void if you leave the wilderness boundary, after all. The 24 hour limitation lets you resupply and even spend a night in town, but you have to get back to the wilderness within a day. That always sounded generous to me.... And not always enforced, as in some of the books about thru hikes on the PCT folks will leave and go to a wedding or a hospital, then get back on the trail - tho one could also assume they picked up another permit on the way to the trailhead, I suppose.
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Post by johntpenca on Oct 30, 2019 13:10:16 GMT -8
Wilderness permits for plain old backpacking trips are null and void if you leave the wilderness boundary, after all. The 24 hour limitation lets you resupply and even spend a night in town, but you have to get back to the wilderness within a day. That always sounded generous to me.... And not always enforced, as in some of the books about thru hikes on the PCT folks will leave and go to a wedding or a hospital, then get back on the trail - tho one could also assume they picked up another permit on the way to the trailhead, I suppose. Taking many days or even weeks off from a thru hike is common to recover from difficult sections or other reasons. |
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Post by greg1062 on Oct 30, 2019 14:39:22 GMT -8
Finally, if you went off the PCT at Seavey Pass, and hiked into Bridgeport, and then hitched up to Sonora Pass (which is what I did), is this legal as you are now re-entering the PCT out of the Southern Sierra restricted area, and/or is a new permit required? A lot of questions and very little manpower. I could be wrong, but I read this as only pertaining to the section in question, Kennedy Meadows to Sonora Pass (Kennedy Meadows South to Kennedy Meadows North?  ), as in if your travel through that section is not continuous (however 'they' define it) you would have to get another permit for that section, not the remainder of the PCT. Such as, if they flipped from Kennedy Meadows South to Sonora Pass, their through hike permit is still valid, but when they return to do that section they would have to get a new permit from the local agency. Hopefully some clarification will be issued. |
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Oct 30, 2019 15:10:40 GMT -8
So early PCTrs faced with avoiding the Sierra snowpack will need a new wilderness permit for that section when they hop north and run out the rest first. . Reasonable enough and given various trailhead choices and quotas (does Sequoia NF even have a daily entry quota for Kennedy Meadows south? Not that I could find) from the various national forests and parks not a significant barrier.
Daily entry quotas are there to protect both resources (as they cap seasonal total use) and visitors experience as they mitigate overcrowding. So people who choose to return via a popular entry such as Cottonwood Pass or Cottonwood Lakes or Whitney Portal? Join the others lining up.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Oct 30, 2019 15:31:15 GMT -8
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whistlepunk
Trail Wise!
I was an award winning honor student once. I have no idea what happened...
Posts: 1,446
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Post by whistlepunk on Oct 30, 2019 20:47:51 GMT -8
Interesting the Central Oregon proposed changes will also limit day users from certain trailheads.
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almostthere
Trail Wise!
putting on my hiking shoes....
Posts: 696
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Post by almostthere on Oct 31, 2019 7:05:26 GMT -8
So early PCTrs faced with avoiding the Sierra snowpack will need a new wilderness permit for that section when they hop north and run out the rest first. . Reasonable enough and given various trailhead choices and quotas (does Sequoia NF even have a daily entry quota for Kennedy Meadows south? Not that I could find) from the various national forests and parks not a significant barrier. Daily entry quotas are there to protect both resources (as they cap seasonal total use) and visitors experience as they mitigate overcrowding. So people who choose to return via a popular entry such as Cottonwood Pass or Cottonwood Lakes or Whitney Portal? Join the others lining up.
Sequoia NF does not care about hikers. Evidence, the state of the trails in Golden Trout - other than bootlegging packers with saws, no one is doing trail maintenance. The PCT through Sequoia NF is getting love from trail crews that get grants to do it. Grants are the way the work gets done in the NFs. Zero NF budget for wilderness, pretty much.
The ways of getting back on the PCT are infinite. You'll find JMT hikers getting creative as well. Met a pair doing it in two pieces from Florence Lake - they were going south, after having gone north and finishing that half from the same trailhead.
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), as in if your travel through that section is not continuous (however 'they' define it) you would have to get another permit for that section, not the remainder of the PCT. 