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Post by dirthurts on Dec 10, 2015 19:27:38 GMT -8
I'm a big fan of the pad so far, and I've always been warm on it at around freezing, but I'm hoping to take it below that this year. Anyone have any experience with it and know how low it stays warm to? Previously I've been using the Neoair, and it's toast, but I just don't sleep as well on it. Thoughts?
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Post by hikerjer on Dec 10, 2015 20:42:58 GMT -8
I'm not familiar with that pad but with any pad (I currently have a Neolight),in the winter, especially on snow, I always take a ensolite closed cell pad for underneath it. The added insulation and warmth is significant and since it's virtually indestructible, the closed cell pad has a lot of other uses in the snow as well - kitchen pad, sit pad, etc. . Well worth the slight extra weight and bulk in the winter. JMO.
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BlueBear
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Post by BlueBear on Dec 11, 2015 2:44:27 GMT -8
I'm a big fan of the pad so far, and I've always been warm on it at around freezing, but I'm hoping to take it below that this year. Anyone have any experience with it and know how low it stays warm to? Previously I've been using the Neoair, and it's toast, but I just don't sleep as well on it. Thoughts? I do the same as Jer, it's a tried and true method. Take your 3-season pad, stick a closed-cell foam pad underneath it, and use it for winter. Sleeping on snow will suck the heat from you unforgivingly if you don't have enough insulation under you. The extra few ounces for the extra foam pad in winter are a 100% necessity on my own gear list. I would avoid a NeoAir for winter use, it being entirely uninsulated. Just my $.02, - Mike
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Dec 11, 2015 5:40:28 GMT -8
I would avoid a NeoAir for winter use, it being entirely uninsulated. I'll echo the above two with the exception of the quoted. A purely inflatable pad (not unlike a pool mattress) is quite chilly, for sure. But whatever Therm-a-Rest does to their NeoAir with the extra inner layer(s) and the reflective coatings seems to work at achieving useful R-values. I know a couple of folk who sleep on only the R5+ XTherm when winter camping. Perhaps a bit foolhardy to rely entirely on something which can be rendered useless by a pointy rock, but there is no doubt it's warm enough. My own experience with the R3+ XLite has been stellar. Like those above, I lay it over a closed-cell foam mat in the winter. Regardless, a good ground pad system is essential to a warm night's sleep in the winter. Cold ground draws heat out of you much faster than cold air and cold snow is only slightly better than cold ground.
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Post by beartoothtucker on Dec 11, 2015 5:56:44 GMT -8
Jer, I know it is largely a personal issue. However, just for my own knowledge what is the Temp you bring the closed cell foam to supplement the Neo?
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Post by hikerjer on Dec 11, 2015 7:59:18 GMT -8
what is the Temp you bring the closed cell foam to supplement the Neo? Good question, but I've never actually thought about a specific temperature rating. The use of the extra pad is generally dictated by there being snow on the ground. If I would venture a guess, I would say I've gone down to about 15 degrees with just the Neoaire with no problem but there was no snow on the ground. BTW, from your name, I'd assume, like me, you're from southern Montana somewhere.
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Dec 11, 2015 8:10:24 GMT -8
I use inflatables all year, and add a foam pad in snow.
The NeoAir works. In the past there were tons of complaints that people got chilled on them -- that doesn't happen so much. I never complained, because I used one of the original ones for 6+ years without getting cold even when it was down to freezing... but YMMV.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Dec 11, 2015 8:23:31 GMT -8
The NeoAir works. In the past there were tons of complaints that people got chilled on them -- that doesn't happen so much. I never complained, because I used one of the original ones for 6+ years without getting cold even when it was down to freezing... but YMMV. I have been pretty chilly when temps drop into the teens, but then...I use a 32-degree bag. The lighter bad on the dubious insulation definitely gets sketchy starting in the mid 20s. (Mine is one of the early NeoAir pads, so maybe an upgrade is in order?). In a pinch, I've found that even as small a thing as layering my rain jacket under my bag improves matters.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Dec 11, 2015 8:57:08 GMT -8
I've got both a NeoAir XLite and a Prolite Plus...and several closed cell foam mattresses as well.
The Prolite Plus works fine. I would also recommend combining with a closed cell foam, just in case of failure. That is the primary reason I bring one in winter. An uncomfortable night on the dirt is not that big of a deal but on cold snow/ice, it sucks...and as my buddy found out, pretty much undoable. He ended up hiking out in the middle of the night. Mind you, now that I've got more experience, I would just shove a heavy layer of pine/fir bows and still be alright.
I've also used the NeoAir XLite in winter as well (also with a secondary Thermarest mattress). That was my primary combination out on the ice sheets of Greenland. I tried several different combinations while on the trip (including the Prolite Plus and closed cell foam). I liked the cushion of the NeoAir, slightly deflated over the Prolite Plus being that it is obviously a bit thinner.
The short of it...they all worked but I will always strongly encourage folk to bring two mattresses on ice and snow any which way you go.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Dec 11, 2015 9:28:47 GMT -8
The other variable is "freezing" but on bare ground or "freezing" on total snow cover?
For the latter closed cell foam is a great addition heat conduction through soil or rock isn't great (so rate of heat loss is listed as you warm the local mass), but with an endless supply of snow to pull heat by melting.... very very uncomfortable. Snow camping I still opt for a short inflatable Thermarest, these days a ProLite I believe, but I do opt for full length closed cell in addition, insulates more of the interior of the shelter from the snow in my view, I've seen people completely cover the floor of their shelter with closed cell to make a warmer longer term space.
Oh and the "it stays warm to" part is very tightly connected to your sleeping bag (and shelter of course) as all the parts of the sleeping system are connected functionally.
ETA: FWIW In sumer in the Sierra it will dip into the teens at night, far below 30... and I've nothing but the ProLite and I'm fine. At colder r temps after the initial inflating breath has cooled topping up the pressure can be necessary, so I most often tend to let it self inflate, get it up to pressure and then let it sit while I cook etc. and then do a final top[ up right before I'm going to use it.. Otherwise I've never found failure to be riskier in winter than summer: a failed valve is a failed valve after all (my only failures with Thermarests going back a very long ways).
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Post by dirthurts on Dec 11, 2015 12:32:31 GMT -8
The Neoair I was referring to is the all season variant (4.9 r value) and it's been warm for me into the teens (haven't tested it below that). I also carry a Z lite closed cell pad in temps under 30, as many suggested above. I've had a flatten pad in the winter, and it's not fun (although self inflating pads still provide some insulation when they fail, thankfully). Just really wondering if anyone has used the Prolite plus without the foam, just mostly curiosity really.
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Post by beartoothtucker on Dec 11, 2015 13:34:47 GMT -8
Jer, I lived out that way a couple of years. I still try to get back for a hike every year or two. I love the Beartooths.
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Post by hikerjer on Dec 11, 2015 17:23:01 GMT -8
Easy to do. Hope you make your way back in the futrue.
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franco
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Post by franco on Dec 11, 2015 17:42:11 GMT -8
The ProLite Plus is rated R3.4 so not as warm as your 4.9 NeoAir but a standard blue mat under it (about R1.5) will get you about the same or a Z Lite at 2.6 will be a bit warmer giving you a better safety standard if the ProLite fails. ( R values 2+2 does = 4)
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Dec 11, 2015 17:44:23 GMT -8
Yes, I've used the women's Prolite Plus (slightly higher R-Value than the men's version) by itself. Yes, it works fine in winter fully inflated.
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