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Post by N.d.L. Projects on Feb 14, 2017 3:02:40 GMT -8
Hello everyone!
My name is Nikki de Lepper.
I am a industrial design student (21 years old) who's working on a small school project.
I would love to design something for backpackers who aren't a big fan of cooking on a stove.
Although I am fully aware of the advantages of cooking on a stove there are still some downsides in my opinion.
Of course a well prepared backpacker won't easily end up in a situation where they'll have to survive longer than expected but the possibility is still there. In this situation you won't survive forever with a stove, the gas tank will end up empty at some point. You will have to build a fire. Now as far as I know a must have in any survival situation is a "firesteel" or fire starter, or whatever those things are called (I encountered various terms during my research). So I assume most people will use this tool to start a fire. The downside of having nothing but a firesteel when hungry or thirsty is that whenever you're in a wet environment it could take forever to start a fire. Besides that, when it's raining you probably have a lot of trouble keeping the fire lit.
I want to design something that will help you get a fire going and will also make sure it'll keep going even when you only have wet wood available or when it's pouring.
Now my question is, does this sound as useful?
I will make sure the product will be as light as possible and as compact as possible.
I will make sure the product will have several different uses. For example you will be able to dry wood, cook food or use it as a startup for a bigger campfire to keep you warm. Besides that the product will radiate heat as well.
Hopefully you guys (and girls) could give me some answers. Also, when you already know or use a product similar to my idea I would really appreciate it if you could provide me with a name or a link to the product.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Feb 14, 2017 8:02:31 GMT -8
I sometimes cook over a small fire because I find it comforting. While I think it's a good skill to have, avoiding "survival situations" is also a good skill to have. I always carry at least three ways to light a fire (or stove). My kit usually includes a butane lighter, some waterproof matches, some non waterproof (regular) matches in a zip lock snack bag, and several Vaseline impregnated cotton balls which serve as fire starters. I have a magnesium fire starter similar to this but rarely carry it due to weight considerations. Yes, it doesn't weigh much, but when you start adding "just in case" things to your pack, they start to add up. Multi-use items may get included, but I generally don't bring many things I'm not likely to use. |
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Post by N.d.L. Projects on Feb 14, 2017 14:37:50 GMT -8
Hello Lamebeaver , I feel like you're telling me that you personally wouldn't feel the need to carry something with you that doesn't work as fast as a stove. Mostly because it seems to be a "just in case" kind of product. Does that also mean that if I would be able to design something that would work just as fast as a stove (which seems unlikely to be possible but I am willing to try) you would take it into consideration? |
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markskor
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Post by markskor on Feb 14, 2017 15:14:12 GMT -8
NdL,
Pardon our skepticism/ lack of enthusiasm regarding whatever mystery product/stove/thing that you are attempting to design. Good luck with your class project...will give it a real look, if.
Before going any further though, as we have seen countless of these type, "school" exercises posted here previously...(wonder if the same teacher?)...most of those "design students" asked the same type questions/ promised the world... but, as it turned out, generally were confused as to what our style of backpacking really is.
Have you personally hiked, or more importantly, backpacked yourself? Ever hauled a 35 pound backpack all day at altitude, spent a week or more out, slept in the wilderness? Cooked over a fire?
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Post by Dave Ayers on Feb 14, 2017 16:55:48 GMT -8
"I want to design something that will help you get a fire going and will also make sure it'll keep going even when you only have wet wood available or when it's pouring."
I suggest you start by looking over the products already in the marketplace. For example, searching on “fire-starting gear” at REI.com give 31 products.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Feb 15, 2017 9:19:57 GMT -8
I feel like you're telling me that you personally wouldn't feel the need to carry something with you that doesn't work as fast as a stove. Mostly because it seems to be a "just in case" kind of product. Does that also mean that if I would be able to design something that would work just as fast as a stove (which seems unlikely to be possible but I am willing to try) you would take it into consideration? I would consider it, but I already have a cat stove, which cost almost nothing, weighs almost nothing and is very simple. I also have a MSR pocket rocket which is very inexpensive, reliable and light. Whatever you come up with, it needs to be light, cheap, and reliable. After all, I can always build a fire. As far as drying wood, you can almost always find a few dry twigs in sheltered areas and with a fire starter, like my Vaseline filled cotton balls, I've never had difficulty getting a fire started. You've mentioned something capable of drying damp wood....this takes a tremendous amount of energy. It might make more sense to just use this energy to cook with....in which case you have a stove. But hey, I'm willing to keep an open mind to see what you come up with. Feel free to come back let us know how it goes. |
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Feb 15, 2017 20:14:29 GMT -8
Humans have been controlling fire for over 100,000 years at least. Very creative, ingenious humans. They have evolved techniques that work reliably for their environments. Beating these time tested techniques is a tough assignment.
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Post by N.d.L. Projects on Feb 16, 2017 0:40:53 GMT -8
markskor I have never backpacked before, that is exactly why I am asking questions. I am not promising anything, as it is a school project and I am not actually bringing anything on the market yet, but I will never be able to create anything if I don't ask for help. You guys know what's on the market and know what is actually useful. That's exactly why I am asking these questions. If you aren't willing to help, I am not forcing you. All I can say is that I have an idea and I need to research whether this idea is useful for you. I'm holding back on giving away how I am actually planning to achieve this because I know it's not perfect yet and I still need to test some of my theories. If it turns out my idea doesn't work the way I planned, that's to bad, but at least I tried. We won't get any further without taking risks right? ErnieW If this would be everyone's attitude towards product design we wouldn't get any further at all and a lot of new and innovative ideas wouldn't have been born. Failure isn't a bad thing, not taking any risks is. Even if I wouldn't be able to create something new or innovative or useful, it might give others new ideas and they might be able to. Lamebeaver Thank you very much for your reply! I will see what I can do and I will keep you updated on my progress. I don't know if it's okay to share my blog on this forum but here's a link
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Feb 16, 2017 6:13:40 GMT -8
For the record I am a mechanical engineer by training. I work IT for a living. I generally embrace innovation of technology.
I am guess maybe I should have posted as a question: have you researched other fire starting methods used in specific environments? One of the things these methods have is that they can be regenerated from materials in the environment. If your "device" is damaged or lost in the accident that pushed you into the emergency situation what would you do then? I ask about specific environments because you device for drying and then burning wood isn't so useful in a desert.
I have a lot of experience in wet woodlands. As long as I have a saw, steel and tarp starting a fire has never been a problem even in pouring rain. You can build a shelter for the fire from wet wood to protect it from the rain and dry the next round of wood. This works well. A saw can be used to build shelter as well. A tarp has a lot of survival uses.
Also I would like to point out you asked "Also, when you already know or use a product similar to my idea I would really appreciate it if you could provide me with a name or a link to the product." These techniques may not be commercial products but they are definitely competitors to your product.
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Post by N.d.L. Projects on Feb 16, 2017 6:57:58 GMT -8
ErnieW I am guess maybe I should have posted as a question: have you researched other fire starting methods used in specific environments? One of the things these methods have is that they can be regenerated from materials in the environment. If your "device" is damaged or lost in the accident that pushed you into the emergency situation what would you do then? This is a question you can ask with every survival product. I can't make a product which can't get lost in an accident. Also I realize it's possible to start a fire without any product to help same counts for drying wood etc. I want to see if I can create a product that makes it as easy as possible. To make sure you can use the valuable time you have for finding food and water. I have a lot of experience in wet woodlands. As long as I have a saw, steel and tarp starting a fire has never been a problem even in pouring rain. You can build a shelter for the fire from wet wood to protect it from the rain and dry the next round of wood. This works well. A saw can be used to build shelter as well. A tarp has a lot of survival uses. Again, the product i'm designing is supposed to make things go faster, to make sure you can use your time for other important things. It's only supposed to replace the stove, with the simple advantage that it won't need "refills", you don't have to bring more fuel. (which i assume in liquid from would be quite heavy)
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Feb 16, 2017 7:39:22 GMT -8
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crawford
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Post by crawford on Feb 16, 2017 14:16:28 GMT -8
Now my question is, does this sound as useful? Simple answer is yes, but certainly that depends on compact nature and weight. There are a number of wood-gas stoves out on the market that use twigs to make fires hot enough to cook on. You are looking at a fire starter, if I read your first post correctly, that will work in poor conditions (like wetfire). Wetfire is a common thing carried by many for those "just in case" moments. I'm not sure what you're looking at but I am a little interested to see what you come up with. I usually have a small bic lighter, a small fero rod, a film canister with Vaseline impregnated cotton balls. I usually go out with a flask of denatured alcohol and a small DIY alcohol stove. This set up can easily sustain me for 5 days without resupply or the need to cook over a wood fire. If I would use some sort of wood fire I could go longer, or if I carried additional alcohol I could sustain myself longer. I have found myself in a situation where I needed a fire to stave off injury before, so perhaps your concept would be something useful. |
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Feb 17, 2017 8:45:49 GMT -8
This is an important issues. Many of us backpack in areas where fires are not permitted, so replacing the stove isn't an option. Therefore fire starters are an emergency item, carried but virtually never used. For that reason, for many of us, the #1 concern would be that it be light and compact, since we hate carrying weight we don't use. |
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Post by N.d.L. Projects on Feb 18, 2017 10:10:30 GMT -8
ErnieWThank you very much for the links, those are incredibly useful for me I appreciate it. crawfordI have found myself in a situation where I needed a fire to stave off injury before, so perhaps your concept would be something useful. I'm not sure what you mean with "to stave off injury" I'm not a native english speaker, could you please explain? rebeccadMy idea is to design a collapsible wood-stove hopefully not much heavier than the wood-stoves that are already being sold. I want to make sure that the stove will be collapsible until it's completely flat. I imagine that this way it'll be easy to pack it behind all other cargo and you can easily take it out of the backpack whenever it's needed. I want to design it in such way that you'll have a little "pocket" right next to the combustion chamber where you can put in some wet pieces of wood to dry. I'm still doing my research but up until now it still seems like my idea could work. I'm also yet to encounter such a stove so I'm hoping my idea will be an original one.
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Post by zeke on Feb 18, 2017 11:01:53 GMT -8
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