driftwoody
Trail Wise!
Take the path closer to the edge, especially if less traveled
Posts: 15,032
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Post by driftwoody on Jul 19, 2019 12:21:47 GMT -8
DEC warns about breaching the BV in the eastern sections (High Peaks) Thanks, it was probably in the Adirondaks where I heard the BV wasn't approved. The first time I backpacked there we had to rent a Garcia (didn't have a cannister yet). Given the price of these cannisters, it would be good to know which product is universally approved. Prior to this thread I thought the Berikade was a good bet for that.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 19, 2019 17:59:32 GMT -8
A bear that frequented the Marcy dam area had learned how to defeat the lid latches on the BV: that got them banned until BV redesigned the latches. They offered replacement lids for the vulnerable ones iirc. With the new design the actual ban was lifted: the getting chewed through has them bring discouraged from use but not banned: probably as harassing the bears away, as is so often necessary anyway, works since I expect the gnawing through is time consuming. I bet the standard tactic of piling cookware in top do you get warned if the canister is messed with gives sufficient opportunity to scare off the bear before they get a reward in DEC’s judgement.
Frankly the only “universally” approved canister that I comes to mind with a casual think is the original: the Garcia 812. FWIW I’d focus on where I plan to go most and get within that range. For the Sierra that’d be, imho, either a Weekender or an Expedition from Wild Ideas (Bearicade). I’ve an 812 and dislike the weight and the access: the edges of the opening always seem to be getting in the way. If that one looks interesting I’d suggest renting it as it’s close to universally available (might be a statement of its indestructability eh? Lol).
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driftwoody
Trail Wise!
Take the path closer to the edge, especially if less traveled
Posts: 15,032
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Post by driftwoody on Jul 20, 2019 6:45:57 GMT -8
Mostly I backpack in the Southern Appalachian mountains, BSF & RRG, Upper Michigan, and Southern Illinois. I usually just bring my first generation Ursack, which has never been molested. When I do go to a more regulated park I'll be sure to check on what is required and approved.
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ErnieW
Trail Wise!
I want to backpack
Posts: 10,011
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Post by ErnieW on Jul 20, 2019 7:50:31 GMT -8
Frankly the only “universally” approved canister that I comes to mind with a casual think is the original: the Garcia 812. That was another reason I went recently with the Garcia. It came with a scent blocking bag but with just one trip it is obvious that it will need to be replaced eventually. Any recommendations for smell proof bags? Several smaller ones might make the Garcia easier to use than one big one. I also ask because it looks like I most likely will go back to hangs where allowed. So much lighter and I have gotten good at it so it is not hard for me. But I will be incorporating a couple of things I read. First, in I think a NY DEC thing about bears, they suggested using dark cord so it is harder for the bears to see. Maybe a camo 3mm. The other is to store everything in a clean hang sack in scent proof bags. I consider an URsack but it is $$ and I can't help but feel that leaving your food essentially out in a soft sack isn't protecting it. It might prevent a bear and others from being fed but I might then literally have crummy food left after a bear is done with it.
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driftwoody
Trail Wise!
Take the path closer to the edge, especially if less traveled
Posts: 15,032
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Post by driftwoody on Jul 20, 2019 9:08:32 GMT -8
I consider an URsack but it is $$ and I can't help but feel that leaving your food essentially out in a soft sack isn't protecting it. It might prevent a bear and others from being fed but I might then literally have crummy food left after a bear is done with it. Maybe I've just been lucky, but after many nights where black bears and other critters roam my Ursack has never shown evidence of being accosted. Based on everything I've read I wouldn't buy one now, but it's been the convenient choice for me. I just tie it to the base of a small tree not far from camp, and it's always been fine the next morning.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 20, 2019 10:36:32 GMT -8
ErnieW I don’t bother with smellproof. The bears can see the canister so they’ll test it. Otherwise those odor blocking plastic bags are for sale st places like REI, Yiu might check the manuf. to see if the have other sizes. . ETA: Yes they have a variety of sizes. loksak.com/opsak-archive2/
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ErnieW
Trail Wise!
I want to backpack
Posts: 10,011
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Post by ErnieW on Jul 20, 2019 11:08:24 GMT -8
I don’t bother with smellproof. The bears can see the canister so they’ll test it. I would seem to me that keeping smells down as much as possible is part of bear country food storage. Also in most of the how to's about canister use suggest basically hiding them where if found can't be rolled off a cliff or into the water. If it smells of food the bears can find it.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 20, 2019 12:59:51 GMT -8
Unless you always wear odor proof gloves while handling the canister it is going to smell of people: and that’s enough for a lot of bears. My main indifference is probably my habitual above timberline travel where hiding isn’t really possible in any case. With their intelligence and off the charts sense of smell it’s the physical defense that’s ultimately going to matter.
I’ve had a hanging water sack bitten into. Simply on speculation i expect since it contained no food to smell: it just looked right.
Otoh the opsacks don't weigh much and if it’s something someone wants to do that’s a choice.
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Post by JRinGeorgia on Jul 22, 2019 4:55:26 GMT -8
I would seem to me that keeping smells down as much as possible is part of bear country food storage. Not necessarily. The point of a bear canister, at least in areas where bears and humans frequently roam the same areas such as the Sierra, is to let the bear smell and find the canister, become frustrated at not being able to open it, and after a few canister run-ins the bear learns that a canister is one big tease and a waste of energy and will leave them alone from then on. Basically it uses the bear's intelligence against itself. Bears may not completely leave a canister alone once the lesson is learned because some users don't secure the lid, so that may be something else the bear learns and thus may at least knock a canister over to see if the lid slides off. Canisters don't need to be "hidden" but yes, put somewhere that a bear still in the process of learning its lesson about canisters (meaning it still is trying to get into them) will bat it around and play slobber hockey with it, and in that process could move/roll it from its original location. So just something to corral the canister to a confined area. Bushes, logs, rocks all work. You just don't want to wedge the canister tightly, which could allow the bear to gain leverage on it. In areas with few campers and/or where canisters aren't required then bears may not learn to leave them alone because their chances to learn their lesson are infrequent. But you still help by allowing the bear to find your canister and give it the chance to be frustrated -- the more chances it has to do that, the more likely it will learn from the experience.
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Post by johntpenca on Jul 26, 2019 18:55:27 GMT -8
Bears may not completely leave a canister alone once the lesson is learned because some users don't secure the lid, so that may be something else the bear learns and thus may at least knock a canister over to see if the lid slides off. Canisters don't need to be "hidden" but yes, put somewhere that a bear still in the process of learning its lesson about canisters (meaning it still is trying to get into them) will bat it around and play slobber hockey with it, and in that process could move/roll it from its original location. Yes. Need to put bear cans away from cliffs, streams. Best place is in manzanita in a depression.
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