rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Sept 7, 2015 9:19:59 GMT -8
Maybe people in richer societies are better educated as a whole and have elevated themselves above the psychological nonsense? Or perhaps the rich as a whole are just more full of themselves? Or maybe the rich have less need of the consolations of religion?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 10:01:39 GMT -8
How does one quantify religious belief, adherence, attendance, etc.? Such studies, and ensuing discussions about them, are bound to be fraught with poorly-defined terms.
Socrates is reputed to have demanded clear definitions of terms and strict adherence to those definitions in any discussion to follow. Without that, there is little left but hollering of ephemeral opinion, rather than science or intellect.
Some sociologists consider baseball to be an organized religion. And "Nature," whatever it is, has long been intertwined with what is often considered "religion."
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davesenesac
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Post by davesenesac on Sept 7, 2015 11:18:57 GMT -8
(Link requires membership at that site so did not read study.) Not at all surprising but one ought be careful drawing conclusions between the two. Being religious for most people means being part of an organized religion and that requires some commitment in time. Most beautiful natural regions that are not remote are not where people are easily employed so there is a higher ratio of those who would be wealthy enough to live there without income. With greater wealth one becomes exposed to broader parts of culture and society. I believe there are already studies that show that the more wealthy people are the less likely they are to be actively religious. Generally opportunities for activities and involvement is greater the more wealthy one becomes so in other words those people are more likely to be rather busy in life. And beyond being wealthy those who are busy with activities are more likely to reduce other activities including religion simply because they have less time. People who live in those areas of all economic levels are also likely to have better regular choices of outdoor enthusiast activities to participate in versus those distant in urban areas. Hence they may learn to and develop habits of spending more time in outdoors in those beautiful places leaving less time for all other activities including organized religion. So one might also claim those living in such places also watch less television, see fewer movies, and play less video games. Or that they are less likely to be overweight because their hiking involves less couch to fridge of their urban counterparts. David www.davidsenesac.com/2015_Trip_Chronicles/2015_Trip-Chronicles-0.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 1:28:43 GMT -8
More about the article: Title: "The Natural Environment as a Spiritual Resource: A Theory of Regional Variation in Religious Adherence." Authors: Todd W. Ferguson and Jeffrey A. Tamburello; Baylor University. Publication: Sociology of Religion, a Quarterly Review. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the Association for the Sociology of Religion. Abstract of the article is here.Free access to full article through ResearchGate. Data for the study is limited to the United States and derived from the Department of Agriculture and the Census Bureau.
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Post by bradmacmt on Sept 8, 2015 5:04:44 GMT -8
Or maybe the rich have less need of the consolations of religion? Jesus himself said the same, one reason he also said "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven." And, "blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." It's a question of understanding we have need... most of us don't. We're comfortable because of our incredible wealth. Worldly comfort is, indeed, just that.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Sept 8, 2015 7:55:53 GMT -8
Or, as Karl Marx said, "religion is the optiate of the masses."
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Post by bradmacmt on Sept 8, 2015 8:44:49 GMT -8
Or, as Karl Marx said, "religion is the optiate of the masses." And the little know intended meaning of Marx's statement was that the masses needed an opiate because of their depravation. Westerners have taken Marx's statement as a condemnation of religion... it wasn't.
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desert dweller
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Post by desert dweller on Sept 8, 2015 9:10:00 GMT -8
Or, as Karl Marx said, "religion is the optiate of the masses." I like this one, "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." - Thoreau Meaning that they really need to get outside more.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Sept 8, 2015 9:48:18 GMT -8
I like this one, "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." - Thoreau Meaning that they really need to get outside more. Amen to that!
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Sept 8, 2015 9:49:14 GMT -8
And the little know intended meaning of Marx's statement was that the masses needed an opiate because of their depravation. Westerners have taken Marx's statement as a condemnation of religion... it wasn't. Not necessarily condemning religion. But it's pretty clear he understood that it helps meet a need when people aren't getting their needs met in other ways. Including, I suspect as DD says, by getting enough of nature.
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Post by trinity on Sept 8, 2015 9:56:58 GMT -8
And the little know intended meaning of Marx's statement was that the masses needed an opiate because of their depravation. Westerners have taken Marx's statement as a condemnation of religion... it wasn't. Or, to quote William Sloane Coffin, "It is often said that the Church is a crutch. Of course it's a crutch. What makes you think you don't limp?" I think it's a pretty interesting piece, but I didn't really need a study to tell me that "the environment can be a spiritual resource."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 9:59:20 GMT -8
The study in the opening post is not saying that people with easy access to nature are less religious or less spiritually-oriented. The study is simply trying to demonstrate that people with easy access to nature are more inclined to find their spiritual or religious needs satisfied through that access to nature rather than through participation in congregations of traditional religious organizations.
More simply stated: Nature is more likely to be your church if it is easy to access. But that does not make you any more or less religious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 10:02:59 GMT -8
I think it's a pretty interesting piece, but I didn't really need a study to tell me that "the environment can be a spiritual resource." I tend to agree, and the authors of the article seem to be assuming from the outset that nature can be a spiritual resource. They are not really proving that. They are assuming that and then attempting to find data to demonstrate the validity of their assumptions.
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Post by ecocentric on Sept 8, 2015 17:11:09 GMT -8
I think that most of the posts in this thread have been thoughtful and covered the different angles of the topic well. I've always thought of psychology as a "soft" science, not that it wasn't valuable. There has been a lot written recently about the unrepeatability of many psychological studies. Here is one that may apply to this thread. How Do We Fix the Liberal Slant in Social Psychology? -Scientific American
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 18:08:03 GMT -8
I've always thought of psychology as a "soft" science, not that it wasn't valuable. Good point. I think that is true and pretty much inevitable. But since psychology and social psychology do have value, they are worth improving where and when possible — if possible. I think in any objective attempt to find knowledge, we really have to be willing to retain some doubt in even the best studies available to us — especially when the object of study is other human beings.
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