ogg
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Post by ogg on Jun 17, 2017 10:04:04 GMT -8
I hate drones. They're an invasion of privacy and tranquility. They claim a public space for an obnoxious private use. This describes exactly how I feel about them. Last fall I rented a renovated Airstream trailer on private rural property adjoining a national recreation area. We were harassed by a drone for a little while. As it circled closer to us, I displayed the universal gesture of displeasure and eventually it moved off.
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Post by FarOutFarley on Jun 17, 2017 18:22:15 GMT -8
What is the law about drones and privacy? Does it vary by state? In my state it's against the law to film someone without their permission.
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Post by dayhiker on Jun 17, 2017 21:03:38 GMT -8
I know Timberline on Mt Hood does not allow them, nor does Mt Rainier, at least others told a guy he could be arrested (in the parking lot!?) for using one. I wonder if they mean fined. Anyway I would think they might violate wilderness rules, which is most parts of a National Park (like 95%) and of course wilderness areas in the National Forest.
I think airports have trained birds to go after drones? Maybe take one along?
But I could see if people want to do some photos it might be an idea, if it wasn't just a toy, that used to fly over other hikers and campers. Might make some great 360 shots, video.
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Post by dayhiker on Jun 17, 2017 21:06:33 GMT -8
What is the law about drones and privacy? Does it vary by state? In my state it's against the law to film someone without their permission. What state is that? I don't know for sure about video, but if you are out in public it is usually legal to take photos of anyone, even to publish / sell them, as long as they aren't used in advertisements, to sell other products. Even taking a picture of someone on their front porch is ok, no expectation of privacy there, backyard no etc.
Of course many photographers ask for permission or release, or will blur out someone face if it is close enough to be recognized, even if not legally required to do so, just not worth the hassle otherwise. Audio might be another problem, but since your camera isn't hidden it wouldn't be a concealed recording, but I am not sure about that at all. --- EDIT lukeandrewsweb.wordpress.com/2017/06/02/birds-trained-to-take-down-drones/birds trained to takeout drones, but I saw many more articles on the reverse, drones used to scare birds away from airports, and the above suggests using drones to takeout drones??!!
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amaruq
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Call me Little Spoon
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Post by amaruq on Jun 19, 2017 5:30:23 GMT -8
I don't know for sure about video, but if you are out in public it is usually legal to take photos of anyone Most of the photogs I know have always maintained that if it can be seen from public lands (e.g. sidewalks) it can be photographed without reasonable concern for privacy. Of course, common courtesy may dictate otherwise.
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Post by bluefish on Jun 19, 2017 6:19:13 GMT -8
I don't know for sure about video, but if you are out in public it is usually legal to take photos of anyone Most of the photogs I know have always maintained that if it can be seen from public lands (e.g. sidewalks) it can be photographed without reasonable concern for privacy. Of course, common courtesy may dictate otherwise. I'm not familiar with the phrase" common courtesy" is that from an archaic vernacular?
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jun 19, 2017 6:51:12 GMT -8
Other than FCC regulations controlling the use of flight within five miles of the airport without permission (which I've gotten in order to do a video shoot for the city of Redmond) and flight height limitations in the continental US, I'm not aware of anything, short of city ordinances, etc. that would stop someone from filming (short of audio regulations that vary from state to state). People can claim drone filming aren't allowed in specific areas but that doesn't make it illegal. I also had some ski patrol at Timberline lodge claim that the channel 9-11 on 2-way radios is reserved for them and illegal to be on - absolute bull. I've been extremely cautious to thoroughly read through the FCC regulations on my drone before getting my certification and flying.
That doesn't override the fact that it is just tacky to film in some areas because of common courtesy.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 19, 2017 18:33:20 GMT -8
First the disclaimer: I own drones. They are a lot of fun. I do try to respect others when I fly. I would like to say they are not always evil. They are being used more for search and rescue. They are being used to help manage natural resources. They can document natural beauty that may not be with us in a few more years of global warming. Their footage can help educate non hikers about the beauties of the natural world. I have some footage of beautiful old buildings that were torn down. I mostly fly with no cam recording to just fly. Other than FCC regulations controlling the use of flight within five miles of the airport without permission Tigger do you mean FAA? I did end up getting my FCC technician's license to run more powerful video transmitters for FPV but generally drones are governed by FAA, radios/transmitters by FCC.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jun 19, 2017 19:13:34 GMT -8
Ehem...That was on my first cup of Joe for the day. I plead the lack of caffeine as a defense.
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Post by Christian on Jun 19, 2017 19:18:13 GMT -8
Wow I should have checked up on this thread sooner! I stopped seeing notifications for some reason.
I am younger, and in my mind, that is definitely not a "bad" assumption to make. I understand the age gap and that when it comes to hobbies and everything else, there will most definitely be varying points of view.
One thing that I have loved about this forum, is getting the views and opinions from more experienced and mature individuals. As far as courtesy and hiking etiquette, i have learned a lot from this forum and I really appreciate it!
Back to the drones. The reason I was curious in it to begin with was actually stated earlier. To document the beauty of nature. That being said, can anyone who has commented on this thread shed some light on when, if ever, a camera drone won't bother those who may be around? Or is there really no way to use one without ruining at least one person's day?
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jun 19, 2017 21:42:03 GMT -8
I was in the Arctic on the Greenland Ice Sheet roughly 300 miles from the nearest civilization. As part of the documenting our traverse, I used a drone to film our campsite. I still managed to annoy some of our party.
So....like the tree that falls in the woods, as long as nobody is around to witness it, how would/could you ruin their day? I often hike off-trail in areas where there are no trails (or people) within many miles. Would I personally haul my drone out there? No. Too much of a chance of breaking it. If for some reason I figured out a way and was willing to sacrifice my beer?...
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Post by dayhiker on Jun 25, 2017 9:24:32 GMT -8
Just stumbled on this: www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/conditions.htm"Drones Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft (drone) from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park services within the boundaries of Mount Rainier National Park is prohibited (36 CFR 1.5 (a)(1) Superintendent's Compendium). This restriction is to protect the public from hazards and preserve the park's natural, aesthetic, and scenic values. The use of unmanned aircraft devices, such as Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) or drones, has the potential to interfere with public safety by posing an in-flight hazard to other legal aircraft use in the park. The use of these devices also has the potential to disrupt wildlife by interrupting migration, nesting, mating, and hunting activities to include, but not limited to protected species such as the Northern Spotted Owl, Marbled Murrelets, and Peregrine Falcon, as well as native birds and mammals. This restriction is in accordance with NPS Management Policy 8.2 which prohibits recreational uses that conflict with the scenic, natural, and historic values the park was designated to protect, and the associated activities in which individuals seek solitude and tranquility with an expectation of privacy. 97% of Mount Rainier National Park is designated Wilderness. Launching and landing of UAS's in the park can invite violations to the Wilderness Act, which prohibits the operation of motorized vehicles or mechanized transport."
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Post by dayhiker on Jun 25, 2017 9:41:41 GMT -8
And googling: www.fs.fed.us/science-technology/fire/unmanned-aircraft-systems/responsible-use"UAS are considered to be both “motorized equipment” and “mechanical transport” as such they cannot take off from, land in, or be operated from congressionally designated Wilderness Areas. " So you could launch one outside a wilderness area and fly into it, but not land. ------- Timberline has told me I could not ski uphill, even though there are signs saying go this way, and I confirmed later I could ski uphill there. TL can only enforce rules that the FS oks, and it is not in a wilderness, though very close to one. They do have permanent signs saying no drones, but I can not say if their is a FS regulation against operating, landing etc. One could call the FS district to find out , I guess. EDIT I just noticed that the FS link says not to fly over widlerness areas, not clear whether that is a legal requirement etc. Protect Wildlife & the Environment Do not fly over congressionally designated Wilderness Areas or Primitive Areas as many people seek these places for the opportunities for solitude and quiet that they provide. Do not fly over or near wildlife as this can create stress that may cause significant harm, and even death. Intentional disturbance of animals during breeding, nesting, rearing of young, or other critical life history functions is not allowed unless approved as research or management. Follow state wildlife and fish agency regulations on the use of UAS to search for or detect wildlife and fish. Launch the UAS more than 100 meters (328 feet) from wildlife. Do not approach animals or birds vertically with the UAS.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jun 25, 2017 10:18:14 GMT -8
The way the rules were explained to me is that without the hobbyists Orville and Wilbur Wright we would not have had flight as soon as we did. So when the FAA was created it was chartered to regulate commercial flight applications and for the most part left hobbyists alone.
So if you make money or value from flight then you must by law be regulated by the FAA. When I say value I mean something like making a movie with drone footage that is non-profit. There have been cases where the commercial definition has been stretched to include them.
With hobbyists how much the FAA can regulate drones is still a very gray area. Using a drone in a way that endangers public safety you can be held accountable but by laws about public safety. If you notice in the above quoted park regulation they don't say flying over the park is actually against the rules. Once in the air FAA would be the governing body and again their power is in question. When the drone is on the ground they can say it is an illegal motorized vehicle. If it harasses animals they can get you on existing rules about harassing animals. If it makes noise that disturbs someone get you on noise ordinance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 12:54:01 GMT -8
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