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Post by flyinion on Sept 1, 2015 23:58:54 GMT -8
Hi guys, new around here and have some sleeping bag/pad questions that hopefully I can get some advice on. So, currently I have been only car camping, however as part of a lifestyle change of getting in better shape I've become interested in hiking and eventually want to do some backpacking. I've done it before as a kid years ago with my parents and liked it then. Just never really did much outdoors stuff as a tech geek adult until now. I quickly figured out the old sleeping bag I had bought for a camping trip a few years ago was no longer working (nearly froze to death in upper 40's) so I'm looking to upgrade it. I'm trying to find a setup that will not only work well for the car camping, but allow me to move into backpacking with that same gear once I'm ready.
After hitting up REI and trying a couple bags out, I confirmed some suspicions I had. A 32" wide (64 girth) bag is most definitely not wide enough for me. I felt stuffed in it and my arms pinned to my sides. I figure I'm looking at a 68 minimum and a 70" long/wide REI Radiant was a great fit. Then I learned about Big Agnes and their whole sleep system thing. I really like what I saw with them as far as the bag widths for example. Problem is, they all take 20" pads which to me seem way too narrow and my arms will hang off it. I'm confused on why they would pair a nice wide 70 or 73" shoulder girth bag with a 20" pad? I guess I could go with the Summit Park which can take a 25" pad, but is 3lb 11oz in the long size which I believe I need being 5'11" and I'm concerned that it is too heavy of a bag or maybe that it won't pack down small enough since it's built for about 80" shoulder girth.
What do you guys think? Is a 20" the max width that can go in the BA? Should I just go with the Radiant and a 25" pad? Or deal with the 20"? With the radiant I thought about doing a 25" air pad for backpacking and then get something really large like a 30" foam for the car camping. Obviously I can't do that with the BA bags since they have no bottom insulation.
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toejam
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Post by toejam on Sept 2, 2015 4:25:03 GMT -8
I'd recommend getting a standard bag & pad, and not the sleep system thing. It sounds like you need more nights sleeping on the ground before you really know what you want. Those confining bags don't seem so confining on a cold night. And you need to figure out your pillow and if you will sleep in your back, front, or side.
Borrow or rent stuff, if possible, and get out and get some bag nights. You can spend huge $$ on a sleeping bag and it's worth every penny if it's a good one. So you need to be really sure what works for you on cold nights in the woods, regardless of measurements/stats/girths. I have no idea about the measurements of my stuff, but it works and it's as light as possible because I don't want to carry extra stuff around in my pack all day.
Most experienced backpackers end up with air pads, btw.
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Post by trinity on Sept 2, 2015 4:36:03 GMT -8
I'd recommend getting a standard bag & pad, and not the sleep system thing. It sounds like you need more nights sleeping on the ground before you really know what you want. Those confining bags don't seem so confining on a cold night. And you need to figure out your pillow and if you will sleep in your back, front, or side. Borrow or rent stuff, if possible, and get out and get some bag nights. You can spend huge $$ on a sleeping bag and it's worth every penny if it's a good one. So you need to be really sure what works for you on cold nights in the woods, regardless of measurements/stats/girths. I have no idea about the measurements of my stuff, but it works and it's as light as possible because I don't want to carry extra stuff around in my pack all day. Most experienced backpackers end up with air pads, btw. This is good advice. Also, as you are researching, look into quilts, they are a great option for people who feel confined in mummy bags. Much like the BA bags, quilts save weight by not having down on the underside, where it is compressed and does not provide any insulation. I have an Enlightened Equipment and a Jacks R Better quilt, they are both excellent. Quilts are also fairly economical compared to top of the line bags. |
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Sept 2, 2015 4:50:21 GMT -8
Another quilt user, but mine is from underground quilts UGQ I found them to be of high quality and moderately priced.
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Post by topshot on Sept 2, 2015 5:09:48 GMT -8
Since I started using my REI bag as a quilt several years ago, I don't think I've used it as a normal bag since then. It's never been windy or cold enough to do so. You can zip it up however much you need, but so far I've left it all the way unzipped. I'm a side sleeper that turns a lot. Would highly recommend down unless you're always in the PNW rainforest or certain winter conditions (though they have moisture resistant down for more money nowadays). I also went to the wider 25" Neoair pad recently even though I'm not that big.
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on Sept 2, 2015 5:27:16 GMT -8
I can't tell whether you need a wide/long bag because you're a big guy, or because you're not used to mummy bags and hate being confined. If it's because you're a big guy, I think you should match the pad size to you.
Pay some attention to the pad's R-value if you're getting cold; it's not just about the sleeping bag. The pad provides insulation from the ground and needs to have the appropriate R-value for the temperatures you want. It's especially important if you move to air pads because they provide a lot less insulation then the older foam-style pads.
If you dislike the confined feel of a sleeping bag, consider a quilt. If you go the quilt route, I recommend you don't skimp on the pad size; get a wide if you need it.
Think about the temperatures you want to camp in and start with a bag that's rated 10 degrees below a reasonable low temp. So, if you're a mostly-warm weather camper and don't expect temps below 40degF, an accurately rated 30-degree bag will work as long as you pair it with an appropriate pad. If we're talking 3-seasons with temps approaching freezing, a 20-degree bag is good. (I think a 20deg bag is a pretty practical first bag.) If you're an unusually warm or cold sleeper, adjust that "10 degrees" buffer accordingly.
In the end, you have to carry everything on your back, so weight matters. There's a balance between "luxury" comfort (e.g. "I'm a skinny guy but want a 70" girth sleeping bag because I want it to be just like sleeping in my king-sized bed at home") and the reality of a 40+lb pack. In my experience, a rough rule-of-thumb is the weight of your "big four" - pack, shelter, sleeping bag and pad - will be about a quarter to a third of your total pack weight for a typical 3-5 day hike. So, if you have a 3lb bag, 2lb pad, 4lb tent and a 3lb pack; total 12lb big four, I'm going to bet a 45lb pack. 45lb may not sound like a lot to you, but it'll get old after carrying it around on your back for a couple of hours.
And be forewarned... if you get into backpacking, you're going to start "collecting" sleeping bags... and shelters... |
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Sept 2, 2015 5:40:08 GMT -8
I'm fresh off researching air pads as just last night I picked up a TR NeoAir XLite to replace/supplement my TR SOLite closed-cell foam pad. As toejam mentioned, after considering all angles and looking for flexibility, the air pads seem to come out on top for the majority of hikers. Light, packs small, good comfort and warmth, and a decent price (on the XLite, the XTherm was a bit out of budget sadly). Just mind the pointy rocks.
You'll always lose much more heat to the ground than to the air (up to 165 times as fast to granite than to air), so investing in a quality pad might take priority over a quality bag/quilt for the time being.
Note that bag 'girth' and pad width are only indirectly comparable. The girth of a bag may be specified at 70", but that includes the vertical sides of the bag as well as its transverse width. So in reality, the 70" 'girth' may work out to 23" wide top/bottom and 12" around either side. You'll note that this would then mate up nicely with a 20" wide pad.
You could technically use the 'bottomless' BA bag (if you really like it) on any pad as the theory states that the bottom insulation on any bag ends up being useless. Crush the loft, lose the warmth. But you may need to jimmy-rig some means of keeping the bag and pad connected. I would discourage this though, because gear at that level is generally marketed to those who know through extended experience exactly what performance they want and need, whereas you're still getting up and running.
Ultimately, as mentioned above, you've got to figure out what works for you. The best means will be by spending a few nights in the dirt with some rental equipment if you can find it. A questionably-wise man once told me that "the most harrowing part of a hike is sleeping in a mummy bag." If you can't handle feeling at least a little bit confined, perhaps avoid mummy bags? It's no big deal, I know lots of folk who can't stand mummy bags. And if you haven't already, go lay on some of those pads at REI. Maybe 20" isn't actually too narrow for you.
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Post by ashepabst on Sept 2, 2015 7:17:22 GMT -8
I prefer a 25" wide pad, too. I tend to sleep on my back mostly and was often waking up with my arms on the cold ground. I've never used a BA bag with a pad sleeve so I'm not sure on your question. I bet REI would let you try it... see if the 25" pad will fit. I like the idea of the design --having the pad attached to the bag. that way you don't slide around on the pad and have to adjust through the night.
check out down quilts. I know it seems a bit unorthodox, but I think it's a much more comfortable night's sleep.
3.7lbs for a pad is just too much. if you can afford it, look into the ultralight air pad options (exped, thermorest, BA, nemo). I have the exped symnat UL7 and it's only 21ozs for the long, wide size.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Sept 2, 2015 10:52:09 GMT -8
Last year, I went with a Thermarest XLite for a pad and used it as my primary pad on the ice sheets of Greenland for a month. It performed spectacularly. I'll actually be using a quilt in combo with my Golite Featherlite bag when we go back this coming spring.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Sept 2, 2015 11:01:05 GMT -8
I tend to flop around a lot when I sleep, so I went with a long and wide mat (Synmat7). No complaints from me!
As for the bag, I often just unzip mine and use it as quilt, so going with an uninsulated bottom wouldn't be an option.
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Post by flyinion on Sept 2, 2015 11:03:01 GMT -8
I prefer a 25" wide pad, too. I tend to sleep on my back mostly and was often waking up with my arms on the cold ground. I've never used a BA bag with a pad sleeve so I'm not sure on your question. I bet REI would let you try it... see if the 25" pad will fit. I like the idea of the design --having the pad attached to the bag. that way you don't slide around on the pad and have to adjust through the night. check out down quilts. I know it seems a bit unorthodox, but I think it's a much more comfortable night's sleep. 3.7lbs for a pad is just too much. if you can afford it, look into the ultralight air pad options (exped, thermorest, BA, nemo). I have the exped symnat UL7 and it's only 21ozs for the long, wide size. Thanks for the info everyone! I will definitely look into the quilt option. I hadn't heard of that before. Right now it sounds like my best bet with what I've been looking at (i.e. what's in my price range and makes sense as a beginner) is to go with the REI Lumen bag instead of the Big Agness if I actually go for a bag. ashepabst - not sure what the 3.7lbs is about? If that was in reference to my post about 3lb 11oz that was the Big Agnes Summit Park bag not the pad that would go with it. Although, the air pad that would match that and be insulated would be 31oz, just under 2lbs. Basically 5lb 10oz for the bag & pad. With those weights I could be pushing 15lbs for the bag, pad, tent, and pack since I have an REI Passage 2 tent that I just picked up which is either 4lb 14oz or 5lb 5oz depending on config or 3lb 8oz with just the fly and footprint config. |
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Post by flyinion on Sept 2, 2015 11:10:24 GMT -8
Oh, for amarug, yes I've tried the 20" pads and they're definitely too narrow if I don't want my arms hanging down on the ground unfortunately  |
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Post by ashepabst on Sept 2, 2015 13:39:05 GMT -8
yeah, sorry --misread that part.
have fun getting back out there.
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Post by flyinion on Sept 2, 2015 15:29:54 GMT -8
yeah, sorry --misread that part. have fun getting back out there. Thanks, I'm looking forward to it. I'm 42 and I have no idea why I waited this long to get in shape and do some of this stuff that I used to love as a kid.  I think my wife probably thinks I'm a bit nuts right now. |
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Post by dayhiker on Sept 2, 2015 15:59:15 GMT -8
I agree with others unless you have a hard time staying on top of your pad there is no reason for a system (pocket?), which does not work if you toss and turn, bag usually turns with you. I too hate having my arms pinned to my sides. I have wide bags from Feathered Friend that seem a bit confining still. I might get something like this which can be used as a coat as well: featheredfriends.com/winter-wren-down-sleeping-bag.htmlJust needs sleeves which would leave you complete freedom with your arms. Jack R Better makes sleeves if I remember right and quilts. I saw a couple of versions of the FF bag as well. Of course a complete suit would work too. I saw this used around a hammock, but I don't think that would work with a bug net at the same time? I only take a wide pad for my hammock where it curls up. I use CC foam pads so can't help you much on those, even in winter I don't think a wider pad would help much with the arms, they either don't mind that much, or I keep them inside the bag if it is really cold. I haven't bought a quilt yet because most aren't as wide as my bag, or have as much insulation - i find my winter bag works well in the cascades in summer with the lightest long under wear, and makes a light over all combo. It can be zipped up if it is really draffty which my tarp tent can be. I also save weight using a water bottle filter and not cooking so my total weight is still ok. ===== FF makes a bottom for turning you bag into a double, on the theory that the insulation on the bottom does not matter. It is a bit heavy , esp. for one, with zippers, and the material it uses. |
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I think my wife probably thinks I'm a bit nuts right now.