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Post by rwtb123 on Dec 30, 2016 8:10:54 GMT -8
I think the key is finding what works for you,as you are doing.The internet is a great resource for information,and I know you have mentioned nutritional sites that I regularly monitored in the past when I started getting serious about diet and nutrition,myself. I suspect necessary lifestyle/nutritional changes may be easier for some than others.For example, the very overweight you mentioned likely face real challenges in changing behaviors on a sustained basis. This thread is actually a very timely topic for everyone,and as I have said I obsessed about this type of thing for years until I found what worked best for me, diet and lifestyle wise.And,it always helps me to refresh my memory on this type of thing from time to time.
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bp2go
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Post by bp2go on Dec 30, 2016 9:13:03 GMT -8
I can't get him to make permanent changes... This is so hard to understand! He knows he is diabetic, why would he resist the changes needed? If your husband is taking the usual kit of meds and is not (yet) bothered by the inevitable typical problems (vision for sure; Charcot seems pretty uncommon,....but!) is he reluctant to eat a better diet? Does he go walking around the neighborhood for at least 30 mi.n at a crack? If I may be so nosey, what is he not willing to change? And what would be the reason(s)? As for bringing this to light: yes, it was not an easy decision for me to go public, but private chats with zeke made it clear that there is a lot that is not known to other diabetics! Yes, me included. But I am almost fanatic about learning what I can. And in the last few years I have "met" others with type 2 so I ask them questions. I am stunned by how many are just "getting by" and not working at postponing the problems that can come up. So I am glad to be participating in this conversation.
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Post by hikinggods on Dec 30, 2016 22:01:35 GMT -8
My mother was found to be "pre-diabetic" a little over a year ago, then, about 8 months ago, she had crossed the line into Type II Diabetes and was put on Metformin She HATES taking any kind of medication, so decided to work on lifestyle. I suggested dropping her "healthy" cereal (almost pure carbohydrate) with milk (largely carbohydrate) and replace it with eggs scrambled with onion, spinach, mushroom, etc. No soft drinks of any kind, diet or otherwise, and replace her dessert of chocolate with nuts or 70% or more dark chocolate. She cut WAY back on bread and started walking a little most days. She revisited her doctor 2 months ago and her DMII was completely reversed and she is now off all meds. The doctor said she was the perfect patient: willing to work to make active changes instead of just popping pills. VERY few of he patients were willing to do that.
SO: protein/fat with your carbs. WAY fewer carbs. Avoid artificial sweeteners-- they confuse your body! Exercise daily.
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mk
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Post by mk on Dec 31, 2016 7:02:34 GMT -8
what is he not willing to change He's not as bad as all that -- he exercises regularly (climbing and backpacking were his gig long before I took it up) and does eat a mostly healthy diet. (I cook, so therefore he eats, and enjoys, grilled/baked lean meats, whole grains, fruits and vegetables.) But giving up the soda and desserts is difficult for many people -- and I do include myself in that. And the changes we make can be difficult to maintain over the long-term. Speaking from experience, it's easy to slide and just give in to the temptations. I mean, fried food is popular because it is very tasty. And once you condition your taste buds to that, it's hard to give it up. Same with highly sweetened foods. Charcot is not all that common, I don't think, but my podiatrist told me that he's seeing more now than ever before. Not surprising, given the increasing numbers of diabetics. The theory is easy -- eat a balanced diet, exercise regularly, get good sleep etc. The reality is that for many of us, for many different reasons, those goals are difficult to achieve and maintain. There are so many underlying issues -- we'd need to be around a real campfire to discuss them all ...
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bp2go
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Post by bp2go on Dec 31, 2016 7:48:53 GMT -8
Charcot is not all that common. True. In fact since I am sitting here with a Charcot foot ( for those who have never heard of this, it is pronounced SHARK-oh, French s'il-vous plait) and is an unexpected collapse of the arch of the foot. It can also involve other bones of the foot, but the arch simply comes un-done and arcs downward. This gives it the common name "rocker foot".) It is in fact pretty unusual. When I had to get x-rays during the time I started dealing with this, not one hospital tech had ever heard of it! A curious thing is that I have a friend (a taxi driver) who has had several clients with Charcot who decided it was easy to simply sit at home and have her deliver pizza, or other treats, and every one of her clients eventually had amputations, a few soon died! I am the one and only client who managed to have my foot (and type 2) managed well enough that now I am wearing orthotic shoes but I'm basically fine. No, there is no fixing Charcot. It is what it is. mk, it sounds like things are generally under control, but if you like sodas (and I sure do), diet soda is certainly an answer. I never did like sugary drinks and have consumed plenty of diet Pepsi. Desserts? I made the change to sugar-free with chocolate pudding leading the way, tapioca a close second. I even dare to add a shot of whipped cream. That's right, I'm a reckless dare-devil. So those are the only substitutions I would see in you list of favorites. Fried food? Eat up. Lean meats? Eat up. Add some salmon to the list (omega 3) and eat up. Check the carbs in those veg choices, then steam up and eat up. Everything in moderation, including moderation. hikinggods , good for your mom. What I see is that she was in fact lucky enough to get the word that she was pre-diabetic, then somehow simply went a little overboard and turned into full type 2, but was close enough to the borderline that a change in habit dropped her back to pre-diabetic numbers (A1c of 6-7). Maybe even back into 5+ range? Without numbers, that's a pure guess. But your message supports the whole reason this conversation started. Most people do not know if they are a PRE diabetic, then some twist of fate reveals that they ARE now diabetic, and probably with a big entry number because a quiet disease has gone unchecked for too long. At least that was the case for both zeke and me, thus the discussion started as I quietly started telling him about next steps that his doctor somehow thought could wait! So the hope is to get people to be curious. Without insurance it is hard to decide to pay for a test, but if one ends up being diabetic, the cost of treatment is pretty high, and never mind the money, life can change pretty dramatically. I speak from experience.
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Post by autumnmist on Dec 31, 2016 8:51:28 GMT -8
In terms of making the necessary and sometimes difficult diet changes for people who are accustomed to eating whatever they want, I think there are two more factors to consider: First: "it won't happen to me". Second: "I'll just take a pill if I get it."
I don't have any scientific support for the belief that diabetes will never be a denier's problem. But I've seen this in attitudes expressed on forums, and on one side of my family. Wondering repeatedly why changes weren't made when the early signs were diagnosed, I think it might be because these people just relied literally and totally on (western) medicine for solutions. In other words, do what we want to do and there will be some medicine or surgery to cure it.
I was surprised to learn from another totally unrelated forum how many women find solace in pills, whether it's for specific medical issues, for anxiety, for depression, for stress, for dementia. "Mother's Little Helpers" are real. These women see medication as the first choice for literally anything out of the ordinary. I doubt if they would ever consider homeopathic or other nontraditional medicine.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Dec 31, 2016 10:07:06 GMT -8
I doubt if they would ever consider homeopathic or other nontraditional medicine. Well, I wouldn't consider homeopathy, which has no science behind it. But diet and lifestyle changes? That's doing something real, and proven. But it's a lot harder than popping a pill, so I'm not surprise how few people do it. Heck, I'm pretty good at taking care of my body, and I still have trouble making some changes I know I should. The average person who's never been an athlete, never thought about what is good for their health? Of course they struggle.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Jan 1, 2017 15:27:41 GMT -8
Yikes! I hope it responds well to diet and lifestyle changes.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Jan 2, 2017 6:50:28 GMT -8
Thanks, BigLoad After being prodded by a good friend, I secured a free meter from a company, and a prescription from my Dr for the test strips. Now, I track my eating in a log, being very honest about it, and I also track my morning readings. I think I have a good handle on the numbers now. I have dropped sweets nearly entirely, and temporarily stopped the beer. Once I feel more comfortable, beer will be a 2x a week thing, instead of a 1 a day thing. I AM giving up cookies and boxes of crackers in one sitting.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Jan 2, 2017 15:46:09 GMT -8
I just went to my doctor on 12/29/2016. I had a very good report and intended to revive my old thread to talk about it. But seeing this, I will do so here.
I am considered pre-diabetic with a Hgb A1c value of 5.9. Normal values are considered 4.2 - 5.8. This is similar to values I have had for the past two years. I have a family history of diabetes so the doctor and I both feel I should watch it closely so as to avoid full blown diabetes. I also suffer from hypertension, which is also a history trait. I did not have any other blood work done for checking lipid values, but they have been in check for a while. My blood pressure was 108/76. I had lost 15 pounds since my last visit in September. (I actually lost 20 lbs but regained 5 lbs over the holidays.) Because of my progress, the doctor suggested I halve my hypertension med Lisinopril and see how I react.
My doctor was pleased and so was I. I still have work to go. My goal is to lose at least 15 lbs more and to get off hypertension meds altogether. I hope to accomplish the weight loss in the next six months and the off lisinopril in the next year. Also I hope to get out of the pre-diabetes category and such. I take Atorvastatin and I have come to terms with the fact I will take it the rest of my life. Latest studies indicate statin drugs improve health outcomes and so I started on them last year and have not looked back. But it would be nice to get off Lisinopril.
I have lost weight through portion control and by reducing carbs in my diet. I eat more fresh vegetables and fruit. I have been exercising but I plan to increase that to maximize the health outcomes. And I can do all this without becoming a fanatic about food and exercise.
Now to speak directly to Zeke. Those are some high numbers you quoted for both Hgb A1c and your eye pressures. And yes, they should have treated your eye presures as an emergency. My numbers were way higher than yours when I noticed something was wrong. I was like 76 in my left and 52 in my right. But that is why I am legally blind now. I would also suggest you consider seeing a dietician to help you with food selection and modest weight loss. Weight loss is curative.
For a long time I was satisfied with my weight and health. I was over-weight but not fat or obese. My numbers were ok and I generally ate a good diet, at least compared to what I used to eat and what the average person eats. Two things happened to change my perspective. #1, my numbers started going bad. My cholesterol and other numbers rose. My Hgb A1c value rose. And my over-all weight crept up. #2, my brother's health collapsed due to his issues with diabetes and hypertension. I saw first hand and up close the end result of not coming to terms with these issues. It is an ugly thing. I had started and regressed several times, but one night as I contemplated my life and what I wanted for myself, I made a deep commitment in my determination to change. I knew then I had turned the corner on this and I only needed to find proper ways to implement these changes for myself. I have a wonderfully supportive life partner, so that is a plus for me. If I die next week or three decades from now, I will be able to say I did what I could to maintain a quality of life I desired.
Rumi <~~~~not a health nut, just a nut
PS: It goes almost without saying, but I am totally behind you Zeke. I hope you get the health results you desire.
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BlueBear
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Post by BlueBear on Jan 2, 2017 20:03:39 GMT -8
PS: It goes almost without saying, but I am totally behind you Zeke. I hope you get the health results you desire. I'm 100% with RumiDude on this. I'm kinda late getting back to this thread, but am encouraged by the feedback you're getting. It's good. I'm glad to hear you're testing your blood sugar now, please keep that up. I'll not try to repeat what everyone else has said (it's been good), but perhaps add a few points for your consideration. First, I think it's personally helpful to know what those Hemoglobin A1C values mean. An HA1C value of 11.4 is very high, dangerously high to keep at that level. That corresponds with blood sugar levels roughly 2.8-3x higher than they would normally be. www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/a1c-test/details/results/rsc-20167939 I don't say that to scare you, but it was a bit alarming to hear your doctor say they'd wait 90 days to see if it comes down on its own, before bothering to start regular testing. For Type-1 diabetics (who have to regulate all their carb/insulin ratios manually, every day with doses of insulin), A1C values above 7.5 or 8 are reason to reassess treatment, testing and eating behaviors. I highly recommend seeing an endocrinologist or other internal medicine specialist familiar with Type-2 Diabetes. Speaking as a concerned friend, I am not sure I trust your doctor to know what's best to do for you, given the initial feedback you've indicated thus far. Even if you really like your Primary Care physician, getting a specialist's opinion would be very good at this point. You've gotten very good advice already on (1) cutting out a lot of carbs, especially simple carbs, and (2) eating more protein, especially with those carbs. In the past several years I've started eating a lot fewer carbs and red meat, and have seen my own health improve quite a lot.... more stable blood sugars, less insulin needed, less late-afternoon fatigue and lost 15 lbs to boot. I tend to eat less carbs, sorta following a gluten-free diet without strictly cutting it out. I don't make sandwiches for lunch any more, which use to be my staple. I eat a lot more salads than I used to, and have really come to enjoy them (I like mine loaded up, usually 8-12 kinds of veggies & nuts with oil & vinegar, yum). It's a lifestyle change, a bit hard at first. Keep your eyes out for great recipes consistent with such a diet, and it becomes easier over time. It may be enlightening to do some occasional experiments with your blood sugars, just so you know how things affect you. Take a carb-heavy snack you'd normally eat regularly. Check your blood sugar just before eating it, and then every 15 minutes for 2-3 hours afterward (total of 8-12 checks). Plot the spike you see. Do it again on another day, adding a bit of protein to that snack. See what happens. Then see if you cut out the simple carbs altogether and pick a different snack. Test it out with different foods. Obviously you don't want to do this constantly (testing strips add up, $), but sometimes would help. If you want to go further, ask your endocrinologist (once you've seen one) about getting a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) for a week. It's something you wear on you for a full week that checks your sugar every few minutes, continuously tracking and recording it. It's quite small and waterproof, doesn't keep you from exercising, eating, etc. That will likely tell you a LOT about how your blood sugar levels respond to things like food, exercise, sleep, etc. It can really illuminate how to improve your odds of avoiding dangerous blood sugar spikes and not having complications down the line. Just a thought, anyway. Your Primary Care physician probably won't know much about it, but any decent Endocrinologist would. Again, keep in mind that I'm a Type-1 diabetic, which is a different ballgame than Type-2, but there are a lot of similarities, especially w.r.t. food and exercise considerations. I hope it's been at least a little helpful. From a friend to a friend: Keep checking those sugars. More often, the better. - Mike
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bp2go
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Post by bp2go on Jan 3, 2017 8:19:01 GMT -8
get off hypertension meds... If you want to run a test, buy some pickled beets and eat some every day. Check your BP and see if it doesn't drop big time in a week or so! Beets are NOT a demon root vegetable like some diabetics think. And yes, beets are a source of sugar, the evil form of glucose. But beets (the juice) will relax the blood veins and pressure drops. Here is a list of articles, oick one and verify this. I found a brand of pickled beets in the produce section sold under the name Love Beets! One of the flavors is SweetFire. They are infused with a subtle heat and they became a favorite. Every day, one or two small beets. My BP had been a standard 130/80 for a long time, nobody ever commented on it at any med appointment. I even found info posted that said it was a "normal range for, shall we say, aging adults! Then a nurse dared hand me a sheet of info about hypertension. I asked why? She was the first to make me aware that 130/80 may be common, but it is not a great number. I knew beets were tasty, I even knew they were good for BP, but I thought my BP was good! I shopped for beets and started a daily dose. Within days, my BP was down to much lower numbers, even to 120/60 and lower. I continue now to have numbers at or below that new normal. So eat some beets. A serving is only four slices of pickled beet. The Love beets are whole, small, and make a great bite.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Jan 3, 2017 10:26:26 GMT -8
Lots of good information in this thread. Thanks Zeke for sharing your story and getting this important discussion going.
Rumi
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Jan 4, 2017 7:59:32 GMT -8
I mentioned my diagnosis in another thread, and bp2go was kind enough to send me a PM, asking if I would share my health matters with him. After several days of PMs, he suggested we go public. This thread is a result of that. I started it because I was more comfortable sharing my medical info. BP2GO has shared more things about his health. Now, others are coming forward. This is what the goal was. Members sharing health concerns, and what they are doing to alleviate them. If others new to the disease, like me, can learn from those who have been at it for a couple of years, then all the better.
P.S. I was happy to see a separate thread on asthma. Maybe my sharing can lead us to a wealth of knowledge on other ailments. With so many members, surely we have just about every illness known to Mankind covered, sadly.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Jan 11, 2017 7:01:27 GMT -8
I am happy to report that I have been tracking my GL numbers for 12 days now, and am averaging 134, which would give me an A1c of 6.3 My carb intake is way down, and I am afraid I have eaten my last cinnamon roll. 900 Kcals and 130 carbs per roll just doesn't seem worth it. They are tasty though.
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